Agenda and minutes

To receive any apologies for absence

Councillors Dylan Bullard, Annwen Daniels, John Brynmor Hughes, Louise Hughes, Sian Hughes, Anne Lloyd Jones, Linda Ann Jones, Roy Owen, Jason Parry, W.Gareth Roberts, Cemlyn Williams, Gethin Glyn Williams and Gruffydd Williams.

The Chairman shall propose that the minutes of the previous meeting of the Council held on 12^th July, 2018 be signed as a true record. (attached)

The Chair signed the minutes of the previous meeting of the Council held on 12 July 2018 as a true record.

To receive any declaration of personal interest.

Councillors Dilwyn Lloyd and Simon Glyn declared a personal interest in item 8 on the agenda - North Wales Fire and Rescue Authority: Financial Update and Consultation 2019/20, since they were members of this Authority. Councillor Nia Jeffreys also declared a personal interest in the same item as her husband was a fireman.

Members were not of the opinion that it was a prejudicial interest, and they did not withdraw from the meeting during the discussion on the item.

To receive any Chairman’s announcements.

Best wishes were extended to:- Gwyn Morris Jones, Head of Highways and Municipal on his retirement at the end of August.

The following were congratulated:-

·         Manon Steffan Ros, Gruffudd Owen a Rhydian Gwyn Lewis, and everyone else from Gwynedd who had been successful at this year's National Eisteddfod in Cardiff.

·         Edmund Bailey, Lord Lieutenant for Gwynedd on his appointment as Constable of Caernarfon Castle.

·         The group of Councillors, led by Dilwyn Lloyd, Jason Parry and Roy Owen, who had arranged the "Trôns dy Dad" event recently to raise money for the Prostate Appeal. £3,500 had thus far been raised, and it was understood that Santander would double the final sum.

It was noted that a special meeting of the Council would have to be convened to discuss the North Wales Growth Deal at 10.00am on Thursday, 25 October. A formal invitation would be sent to everyone after this meeting.

To receive any correspondence, communications or other business brought forward at the request of the Chairman.

None to note.

To note any items which are urgent business in the opinion of the Chairman so they may be considered.

None to note.

To consider any questions the appropriate notice for which have been given under Section 4.19 of the Constitution.

(The Cabinet Members' written responses to the questions had been distributed to the members in advance).

(1)     A question by Councillor Sion Jones

"What powers do community councils and councillors have to determine which tenants get social housing in our community?"

Response - Cabinet Member for Housing, Leisure and Culture, Councillor Craig ab Iago

"I believe that this is one of the subjects that creates the most frustration for councillors. We are all aware of cases in our wards where people need houses and we find that the house, or houses, have gone to someone from outside our communities. Personally, I would like to see a housing system being designed here, by us, which is founded on our priorities. There are several examples across the world and in Europe where the housing systems let houses on the grounds of things such as ethnic group, language, local connections - none of which is racist. The United Nations and the European Union have confirmed this. However, in order to achieve this, we need the power and we lack that power on the say so of the governments in Cardiff and London. We are, therefore, in this perverse situation now where Cornwall is able to achieve far more than we can with their housing system. But, this is the status quo and we can only do what we can."

A Supplementary Question by Councillor Sion Jones

"Will the Cabinet Member, with me, write to the Assembly and Westminster to try to reopen discussions in order to get a more robust and better system within our community and the Council?"

Response - Cabinet Member for Housing, Leisure and Culture, Councillor Craig ab Iago

"The truth of the matter is that most people who get houses have a local connection, but what does a local connection mean? What is the definition of local connection? This is our problem, we don't get to define it. Although we would like to have an overhaul of the whole system, I would say that the Labour Government in Cardiff has shown no interest in this, neither through planning nor through housing, and if we genuinely want a new housing system, the solution is in voting for a different party in our Government. I will, however, do my best to make sure we are able to do all we can and put pressure on whoever to change the system."

(2)     A question by Councillor Owain Williams

"Why have some of the Council's senior officers been refusing a notice of motion from a Councillor time and again, using lame excuses such as, the notice had gone to the wrong department in July, and in September, stating that it was "illegal"?"

Response from the Chair of the Council, Councillor Annwen Hughes

"The Council's Constitution gives members the right to submit motions on the proviso that they are about matters for which the Council has a responsibility or which affect the well-being of the administrative area of the Council.

The Council adopted  ...  view the full minutes text for item 7.

To receive a presentation by the Chief Fire Officer, North Wales Fire and Rescue Authority.

The following officers from the Fire and Rescue Service were welcomed to the meeting to give a presentation and answer members' questions:

·         Richard Fairhead (Assistant Chief Fire Officer, Fire Service) (responsible for operational aspects)

·         Shân Morris (Assistant Chief Officer) (responsible for policy and corporate planning)

·         Helen MacArthur (Assistant Chief Officer) (responsible for finance and resources)

Following the presentation, the following points by individual members were noted:-

·         The service was thanked for its work on behalf of the residents of Gwynedd and it was noted that the presentation, which showed the importance of the service and the difficulty of operating in this difficult financial climate, was very powerful) 

·         It was noted that any increase in levy in 2018/19 would mean that every Council would have to make further cuts to their services and it was asked whether the Fire and Rescue service was moving forward with the cost saving plan by 2019/20. In response, it was noted that all managers had to review their budgets and that they were aware of the need to reduce their basic costs.  The aim was to manage the costs without changing the front line services. As part of the work of planning for 2019/20, a meeting was held with the Authority's Members at which many cost-reducing options were considered, including closing part-time stations, changing 24-hour stations to daytime stations and changing daytime stations to part-time stations. However, the decision made by Members in June of this year was not to change the service delivery model in North Wales at present.

·         Confirmation was sought about the situation of the Caernarfon Fire Station and the service to rural areas of Gwynedd. In response, it was noted that Caernarfon was a daytime station (staff present between noon and 10pm, which are the busiest times) and that the service was staffed by part-time and full-time workers, on duty at home outside those hours. It was confirmed that the aim was to keep the station at that level this year. It was also confirmed that the new high volume pump located in Caernarfon would be used for large fires and floods across the whole of Gwynedd.

·         The need to fill the deputy post was questioned, since the post had been vacant for a whole year. In response, it was explained that the current post did not correspond exactly with the old post. The practicality of the role and internal skill set was considered, but a Certified Accountant was needed to complete the work.

·         It was suggested that the service could save £250,000 (which corresponded to 7.5% of their administrative costs) through reverting to the old arrangement where the firefighters themselves would clean the stations between fires. In response, it was explained that the workers used to receive additional pay for this work, so there was a cost to the service anyway.  It was further noted that much of the preventative work was now being carried out by ancillary staff, rather than the firefighters themselves, and  ...  view the full minutes text for item 8.

To submit the report of the Cabinet Member for Corporate Support  (attached).

The Cabinet Member for Corporate Support, Councillor Nia Jeffreys, presented a report recommending that the Council accept the Welsh Language Promotion Plan for Gwynedd 2018-2023 and the associated action plan and to approve commencing the action.

The following points by individual members were raised:-

·         It was noted that it was this Council that led and pioneered in terms of the Welsh language and that pride should be taken in this strategy which was one of the Council's priorities.

·         Though the Council pioneered in terms of the Primary Language Charter and the Secondary Sector Language Strategy, that there was a gap in terms of the post-compulsory education and that it was important that the Council collaborated with its partners in that respect also.

·         Given the substantial contribution of some of the Council's partners to the success of specific elements of the strategy, it was asked what part those partners played in the consultation and how it was intended to collaborate with them to deliver the strategy.  In response, it was noted that the Local Services Board was an important part of this and that the Leader and Chief Executive were bound to push this forward.  It was also noted that conversations had already been held with some of the partners who had responded directly to the consultation in order to see what to include on the work programme.  Further discussions would be held with some partners and the aim was to establish one group which would bring all partners together as a starting point to discuss the strategy and the work programme in its entirety and then break it down to the thematic fields and bring the specific partners in.

·         It was noted that the document was mediocre, which met the Council's requirement to provide such a plan and noting what was expected by a council operating in the most naturally Welsh area in the world. However, due to the demographic certainty that Gwynedd enjoyed, it was easy to fall into a condition of self-righteousness which, unfortunately, filled the pages of the document and that passion, desire and aspiration were needed to get things done. It was added that the changes in the Council over the recent years had not always given priority to the Welsh language, e.g. during the last year, the Council had adopted planning policies which, if implemented, would undermine our Welsh-speaking communities. It had also closed youth clubs, transferred the leisure centres to an arm's length company and adopted an economic plan, key fields which should be central to this plan if the Welsh language was to be normalised in this county. It was further noted that, of the £52m allocated recently by Welsh Government towards Welsh education, only a little over £1m had come to Gwynedd, which was approximately 2% of the total, and that was because the bid submitted to the Government was for only 2%. If the Council had the desire and vision to make the Welsh language essential in Gwynedd, we would have  ...  view the full minutes text for item 9.

To submit the report of the Leader  (attached).

The following officers from the Wales Audit Office were welcomed to the meeting to give a presentation first and then answer members' questions.

·         Jeremy Evans (Local Government Performance Audit Manager)

·         Non Jenkins (Local Government Performance Audit Manager) - who would be succeeding Jeremy Evans as the new manager for Gwynedd from then on.

The following points by individual members were raised:-

·         It was asked what would happen as a result of the second recommendation on page 61 of the agenda, namely that public bodies would review their procurement strategies and policies during 2017-18 and annually thereafter to ensure that they reflected the broader changes to policies and legislation and support continuous improvement. In response, it was explained that the national reports contained a series of recommendations and that it was a matter for the Council to decide whether this was relevant to them and whether any processes needed to be changed as a result.

·         It was noted that there was great praise for the Council's financial work in the report and the Department's staff, under the leadership of the Head of Finance, were thanked for their thorough and conscientious work.

·         The fact that the report acknowledged the improvements to the overview and scrutiny arrangements was welcomed, but it was enquired what evidence there was of that. In response, it was explained that the Council had reviewed its scrutiny arrangements through a self-evaluation and that scrutiny had now been clearly defined within the Constitution in terms of the roles of members and officers. Some scrutiny work happened outside formal committees, though this needed to be developed further in order to ensure a more comprehensive and complete approach, and planning work had improved, though there was room for further improvement in this regard by doing things in more innovative ways.  There was also a need for clarification regarding the role of members at the performance challenge meetings.

·         In response to an enquiry regarding the cost of producing the Annual Improvement Report, it was explained the total cost of all audit work across the finance and performance fields was £400,000. The report was a summary of the work only and far more detailed individual reports were available should the members wish to read them. The fees had been maintained at the same level over the past seven years and this appeared to be a continuing commitment.

The Leader thanked the auditors for their work and noted that the report's recommendations had either been addressed already or that work was afoot to do so.

Non Jenkins introduced herself to the members, as the new manager for Gwynedd from then on, and gave an outline of her work programme for this year. It was noted that this would be Jeremy Evans' last time appearing before the Council and he was wished well for the future.

RESOLVED to accept the Annual Improvement Report 2017/18.

To submit the report of the Chair of the Standards Committee  (attached).

Dr Einir Young, Chair of the Standards Committee, was welcomed to the meeting to present the committee's annual report for 2017/18.

In presenting the report, Dr Einir Young thanked the Monitoring Officer and his team for their guidance and their ongoing work with the County Council and the Community Councils.

In response to a concern expressed by a member regarding maintaining the system in view of the lower level of investigations by the Ombudsman, the Monitoring Officer explained that the Ombudsman now operated a public interest test which was based on prioritising resources between complaints on matters including health and other public authorities. The threshold for investigating Code of Conduct complaints was now much higher and it was reasonable to expect that the Ombudsman would prioritise e.g. a death in a hospital versus conflict in a community council. Nevertheless, the fact that an investigation was carried out or not did not mean that those people about whom complaints were made were free from the Code of Conduct and there was work to do to communicate and uphold the Code of Conduct. 

It was noted that the Welsh and English versions of Appendix 1 to the report - The Standards Committee's Work Programme 2017-18 did not correspond. The Monitoring Officer noted that he would standardise both versions prior to publishing the final report.

Dr Einir Young was thanked for her presentation.

To submit the report of the Cabinet Member for Corporate Support  (attached).

The Monitoring Officer submitted a report, on behalf of the Standards Committee, recommending that the Council adopt a series of amendments to the Member Officer Relations Protocol.

The following points by individual members were raised:-

·         In light of some of the earlier discussions at this meeting, attention was drawn to 21.9.1 of the protocol which stressed the importance of maintaining the Council's reputation and making an effort not to criticise fellow members.

·         The timetable for responding to correspondence from a member within 5 working days was welcomed, though it was understood that this would not always be possible.

·         It was noted that it was important that officers informed local members of anything happening in their wards.

RESOLVED to adopt the amendments to the Protocol for Member Officer Relations included in Appendix 1 to the report.

In accordance with the Notice of Motion received under Section 4.20 of the Constitution, Councillor Catrin Wager will propose as follows:-

This Council notes that:

·         According to Census data from 2011, 3,724 Gwynedd residents (or 3.1% of the population) have been born outside the UK.  In some areas of Bangor, this rises to 20.9% of the population.

·         Just under 30,000 people a year are detained in the UK under immigration laws; with around 3,000 in detention at any given time.

·         The UK is the only country in Western Europe that detains individuals indefinitely under immigration powers.

·         It costs, on average, more than £31,000 to detain a person for one year.  The total annual cost was £164.4 million in the year 2013/14.  In the years 2011-2014, the government spent £13.8 million compensating former detainees for unlawful detention.

·         There are, at present, 10 detention centres in the UK, including short term holding facilities.

·         Over 50% of those held in immigration detention will be released into the community in the UK.

·         Immigration detention is for administrative purposes.

·         In 2016, as part of the Shaw Review, Professor Mary Bosworth conducted a systematic review of studies investigating the impact of detention on the mental health of those detained.  The studies showed that the critical point for a negative impact on mental health was 30 days.

·         In July 2018, Stephen Shaw produced his Assessment of the government’s action following his 2016 Report.  In this, he underlines the urgent need for detention reform.

This Council further notes that:

·         In March 2015, the Joint Inquiry on the APPG on Refugees and APPG on Migration into the use of Immigration Detention in the UK (the first-ever parliamentary inquiry into the use of immigration detention in the UK) recommended that the government introduce a maximum time limit of 28 days on the length of time anyone can be detained in immigration detention.

·         In March 2016, the House of Lords voted to introduce a 28 day time limit for immigration detention though this was not extended to those persons with a prison sentence of 12 months or more.

·         The 2016-2017 Annual Report HM Inspectorate of Prisons 2017a states “there remains a pressing need for a maximum time limit on immigration detention”.

This Council believes:

·         That the Westminster government should bring the indefinite detention of migrants, asylum seekers and refugees to an end.

·         That a time limit of 28 days should be introduced for detention under immigration powers.

·         That necessitation of a new Immigration Act as part of Brexit provides an opportunity to introduce a time limit.

This Council resolves to:

·         Write to the Home Office stating that we, as Gwynedd Council, wish to see an end to the indefinite detention of migrants under immigration powers, and ask that a 28 day time limit is introduced as part of the new Immigration Act.

Submitted - the following notice of motion by Councillor Catrin Wager, in accordance with Section 4.20 of the Constitution, and it was seconded:-

“This Council notes that:

 According to Census data from 2011, 3,724 Gwynedd residents (or 3.1% of the population) have been born outside the UK. In some areas of Bangor, this rises to 20.9% of the population.

 Just under 30,000 people a year are detained in the UK under immigration laws; with around 3,000 in detention at any given time.

 The UK is the only country in Western Europe that detains individuals indefinitely under immigration powers.

 It costs, on average, more than £31,000 to detain a person for one year. The total annual cost was £164.4 million in the year 2013/14. In the years 2011-2014, the government spent £13.8 million compensating former detainees for unlawful detention.

 There are, at present, 10 detention centres in the UK, including short term holding facilities. 

 Over 50% of those held in immigration detention will be released into the community in the UK.

  Immigration detention is for administrative purposes.

 In 2016, as part of the Shaw Review, Professor Mary Bosworth conducted a systematic review of studies investigating the impact of detention on the mental health of those detained. The studies showed that the critical point for a negative impact on mental health was 30 days.

  In July 2018, Stephen Shaw produced his Assessment of the government’s action following his 2016 Report. In this, he underlines the urgent need for detention reform.

This Council further notes that:

  In March 2015, the Joint Inquiry on the APPG on Refugees and APPG on Migration into the use of Immigration Detention in the UK (the first-ever parliamentary inquiry into the use of immigration detention in the UK) recommended that the government introduce a maximum time limit of 28 days on the length of time anyone can be detained in immigration detention

  In March 2016, the House of Lords voted to introduce a 28 day time limit for immigration detention though this was not extended to those persons with a prison sentence of 12 months or more.

  The 2016-2017 Annual Report HM Inspectorate of Prisons 2017a states “there remains a pressing need for a maximum time limit on immigration detention"

This Council believes:

  That the Westminster government should bring the indefinite detention of migrants, asylum seekers and refugees to an end. 

  That a time limit of 28 days should be introduced for detention under immigration powers.

  That necessitation of a new Immigration Act as part of Brexit provides an opportunity to introduce a time limit.

This Council resolves to:

·  Write to the Home Office stating that we, as Gwynedd Council, wish to see an end to the indefinite detention of migrants under immigration powers, and ask that a 28 day time limit is introduced as part of the new Immigration Act"

Members expressed their enthusiastic support to the motion.

RESOLVED to adopt the motion.