Agenda and minutes

To receive any apologies for absence.

Apologies were received from Councillors Dewi Owen, Peter Read and Gareth A. Roberts, and Rita Price (Catholic Church).  

To receive any declaration of personal interest.

(i)            Councillor Eryl Jones-Williams declared a personal interest in Item 5 - North Wales Population Needs Assessment and that he would withdraw from the Chamber should a specific discussion regarding home care payments be held.

(ii)           Similarly, Councillor Linda Ann Wyn Jones declared a personal interest in Item 5 - North Wales Population Needs Assessment and that she would withdraw from the Chamber should a specific discussion regarding learning disability matters be held.

To note any items that are a matter of urgency in the view of the Chairman for consideration.

There were no urgent business.

The Chairman shall propose that the minutes of the meeting of this Committee held on the 17 November 2016, be signed as a true copy.

The Chair signed the minutes of the previous meeting of this Committee held on 17 November 2016 subject to the following:

(a)  Item 2 - Statement from the Chair 

Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd reported that there was no reference in the previous minutes to his dissatisfaction regarding the fact that members were not aware of the intention of the Head of Education to lead on an interim period on a piece of work in relation to recent changes / strengths and weaknesses of GwE's current arrangements.   At the previous meeting, the Portfolio Cabinet Member noted that he was aware of the above intention but that it was the Chief Executive's responsibility to address the matter.

In response, the Senior Corporate Support Manager reminded members that the matter had been fully discussed with the Chief Executive at the preparatory meeting of this Scrutiny Committee on 13 December 2016, and it had been resolved at this meeting that there was probably an intention to submit a report on the outcomes of work by the Head of Education on GwE to the meeting of the Services Scrutiny Committee in March 2017.

Whilst accepting that an explanation had been received at the preparatory meeting of this Scrutiny Committee on 13 December 2016, the Member was strongly of the opinion that the matter should have been fully discussed at a public meeting so that Members and electors were fully aware of the situation.

(b)  Item 4 (c) - GwE Report

To correct the second sentence in point (c) to read:

"However, one member felt that this should have already taken place and specific reference was made to four gifted head teachers who had been lost to GwE over recent months within the catchment area of one school". - (and not within his Ward as noted in the previous minutes).

Cabinet Members:  Cllr. Mair Rowlands – Children and Young People

                                 Cllr.  W. Gareth Roberts – Adults, Health and Welfare

To consider a report by both the Cabinet Members on the above.

(Copy enclosed)

10.00 a.m. – 10.45 a.m.

Submitted - a draft report of the North Wales Population Needs Assessment produced in accordance with the requirement of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014.

The Cabinet Member for Adults, Health and Well-being provided the background. He was of the opinion that people needed to be encouraged to take responsibility for their health and future early enough in order to make life easier and more comfortable should their health deteriorate.  He explained that this could involve moving to smaller houses, moving closer to family etc. in order to receive support whilst living independently.    He emphasised that steps needed to be tailored to individuals' needs but that people should think about the future whilst they were still healthy and independent.

In response to the above, a Member disagreed with the above observation.  Another Member added that the main problem was the difficulty for individuals to accept that their health was deteriorating and some suffered with dementia with everyone wishing to retain their independence.

Members were given an opportunity to offer observations on the content of the report and the following points were highlighted for further consideration:

(a)  This type of assessment was welcomed but there was concern about the influx of individuals who had retired to European countries who could come to Gwynedd, in light of the European referendum result.  Should this happen, it was asked whether or not any provision for this was being considered.  

(b)  Learning Disabilities - it was welcomed that the provision was being supported but there was no reference in the document to collaboration with the mental health service. 

(c)  Emphasis and assurance should be placed on the language needs of service users

(ch)The value of volunteers' unpaid contributions should be recognised

(d)  Schemes to develop services and support to tackle loneliness were welcomed but there was concern about the continuation of such schemes in relation to funding them in future.   Specific reference was made to the Ffrindia' Scheme which appeared to be a success but it was coming to an end; as a result, it would affect those people who had taken advantage of the scheme.

(dd)In terms of increasing extra care housing provision, an appeal was made for the Service

      to share information with elected members about future plans.

(e)  In relation to future needs, there was a need to empower communities and as a result that there was an important role to identify ageing individuals.  The need to be confident to contact individuals in their communities was added as rural areas did not often receive services from the third sector. 

(f)   Engagement - a request was made for details regarding who contributed to the questionnaire that had been sent to users.

(ff)  It should be recognised that provision for children and young people with severe and complex needs was costly.  Reference to the needs of the autism spectrum disorder was welcomed and attention was drawn to the need to collaborate with relevant services in this context in terms of provision.  Attention  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

Cabinet Member:   Cllr. W. Gareth Roberts

To consider the final report of the above Scrutiny Investigation.

(Copy enclosed)

10.45 a.m. – 11.15 a.m.

Submitted - a report outlining the progress made against the recommendations of the 'From Hospital to Home' Scrutiny Investigation.

The Cabinet Member for Adults, Health and Well-being took pride in the work undertaken thus far regarding the recommendations and that some of them had already been achieved.

The observations made by individual Members were responded to as follows:

(i)            that it was premature to evaluate the Llys Cadfan project as work was progressing in two parts and the first part was nearly complete.  A further discussion would be held on 6 February 2017 to consider where an investment could be made and it was confirmed that there was an intention to develop such a provision in other locations and, without being specific, that there was evidence of demand, especially in the south of the County.

(i)            It was explained that Gwynedd did not have a dual registration provision throughout Gwynedd, but that discussions were being held with CSSIW about schemes to address the need that would make a difference to the provision.

(ii)           It was agreed that the language needs of the patient was very important and that the Health Board had begun handing out leaflets on wards asking in which language the patient wished to speak.

(iii)          That work and discussions were underway regarding collaborating with surgeries as well as extending the opening hours of Community Hospitals and developing them as hubs.

(iv)         Following a Member's recent experience of the Concerns' Department, the system was explained and it was ensured that formal complaints were addressed.

(v)          It was assured that an analysis of the £1.3m funding for Intermediate Care would be shared for information with Members of this Scrutiny Committee.

(vi)         In terms of sharing information with nurses / doctors of what was available by the third sector, as part of Ysbyty Alltwen's work, it was explained that staff gathered information but that more work needed to be achieved in this context.

(vii)        In the context of providing packages for patients when they were discharged from Hospital, the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board Regional Director - West, assured that she would soon hold a discussion at a meeting with Matrons to verify the situation and what happened when an area nurse was not available.   

In response to the observation made regarding language needs, a number of Members further noted that formulating a question correctly was all important and that a bilingual service should be offered as a totally natural part of the service.

It was noted that Dwyfor Surgeries worked well and the observation that the out of hours service would be extended was welcomed.

The opportunity was taken to congratulate the Service on the implementation of the recommendations.

Resolved:       To accept, note and thank the officer for the report.

Cabinet Member:  Cllr. Gareth Thomas

To receive a presentation on the above.

11.45 a.m. – 12.00

A slide presentation was received by an Area Education Officer, and he outlined various models for different types of schools for the future.

Model 1 - with a Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher, 1 budget and 1

                                    Governing Body

Model 2 - with a Strategic Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher,

                                    separate budgets and Governing Bodies

Model 3 - with a Strategic Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher,

                                    separate budgets and 1 Governing Body

Model 4 - with a Strategic Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher, 1

budget and 1 governing body in a multi-site all-through school

            Model 5 - with a Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher, 1

                                                budget and 1 governing body in a single site all-through school

            Model 6 - with a Head Teacher, Assistant Head Teacher, 1 budget, 1 

governing body in a Lifelong Learning school - multi-site or single site (3 - 18 years old)

Following consideration of the principles, it was noted that no model responded to the requirements of every catchment area and that requirements would need to be considered in the areas.  The above models were an attempt to make the role of leading a school attractive bearing in mind the pressures on school leaders and the fact that recruiting school leaders had recently been difficult.

The Cabinet Member for Education referred to an example of model 2 that worked successfully in the Ardudwy catchment area.  In terms of timetable, discussions had recently been held with school staff / governors / parents to highlight the recruitment problem and to seek a solution at grass roots level.  Applications from Head Teachers to discuss possibilities in some catchment areas had been received and the importance of holding discussions with Area Officers and Head Teachers in order to ascertain requirements locally per catchment area was noted.

Resolved:       To accept, note and thank the officer for the presentation whilst looking forward to see the outcomes of local discussions.       

Cabinet Member:    Cllr. Gareth Thomas

To consider the following:

(a)  Progress report on actions taken on the recommendations of the Scrutiny Investigation

(b)  A report by Mr Alun Charles, External Consultant, on implementing the recommendations.

(Copies enclosed)

12.00 – 1.00 p.m.

Mr Alun Charles, External consultant, was welcomed to the meeting and he gave a slide presentation on his study on the implementation of the Council's Language Policy in Gwynedd primary and secondary schools and he explained in detail what had led to the recommendations within the report.

During the ensuing discussion, the following observations were highlighted:

(i)            Progress Report of the Education Service on the recommendations of the Welsh-Medium Education Scrutiny Investigation:

A Member noted that he had submitted specific questions regarding responses to tracking progress of recommendations deriving from the work of the Welsh-Medium Education Scrutiny Investigation, and that, thus far, he had not received a positive response to: 

·         Did the Education Service have powers to intervene to ensure that implementation of the Language Policy was strengthened and standardised and how many of these had been used?

·         Had all governors received training on the language policy despite the Education Service stating that training had been programmed for Summer 2017?

·         It was unclear whether or not steps had been taken in relation to immersion education at Ysgol Ardudwy.

·         It was noted that the Council, along with Welsh Government, had given full consideration to establishing a specific Language Centre for the Bangor catchment area; with the potential arrival of Wylfa Newydd in the context of education, and the Welsh language specifically, it is expected that a number of the new workforce will settle in the Arfon area. It was asked how many immersion centres, extra teachers, language centres etc. would be required to mitigate the impact of Wylfa Newydd on the Welsh language, how much would it cost and who would pay?

(ii)           External Study:

(a)  Reference was made to the fact that the percentages of Welsh language use was higher in KS2 than KS3.  It was suggested that use of the Welsh language needed to be strengthened when pupils transferred from KS2 to KS3, especially when considering the good work undertaken to use Welsh in KS2 and the Language Centres which was then hindered in KS3 when pupils chose to study subjects / sit examinations through the medium of English. 

(b)  A concern that 6th form colleges lost pupils and that some were willing to travel far in order to follow courses through the medium of English which, therefore, hindered the colleges' number of pupils.  It was felt that this matter needed to be addressed.

(c)  That consistency was difficult especially for schools located along the coast and that parents tended to send their children to the private sector. 

(d)  A need to raise parents' awareness of the advantages of a bilingual society and that children missed out if the Welsh language was not part of the curriculum. 

(e)  It was a shame that a rural school in a specific area was in the bilingual category and that a nearby urban school was Welsh-medium.

(f)   Disappointment was expressed at the study as it justified the situation as it was and that an opportunity had been missed as it responded  ...  view the full minutes text for item 8.