Agenda and minutes

To elect a Chairman for this Committee for 2015/16.

Resolved:       To re-elect Councillor Peter Read as Chair of this Committee for the year 2015/16.

To elect a Vice-Chairman for this Committee for 2015/16.

            Resolved:       To re-elect Councillor Beth Lawton as Vice-chair of this           Committee for the year 2015/16.

To receive any apologies for absence.

Councillors Alan Jones Evans, Dewi Owen, Mrs Rita Price (The Catholic Church), Mr Neil Foden (Teachers’ Union).

To receive any declaration of personal interest.

Councillor Linda Ann Wyn Jones declared a personal interest in Item 8 – Changes in the Learning Disability Services, however, she would not withdraw from the Chamber unless there was a specific discussion regarding learning disabilities during this item.  

To note any items that are a matter of urgency in the view of the Chairman for consideration.

The Chairman shall propose that the minutes of the meeting of this Committee held on the 16 April 2015, be signed as a true copy.

The Chairman signed the minutes of the previous meeting of this committee that took place on 16 April 2015.   

To consider a report by the Care Cabinet Member on the above.

a)    A report was presented by the Cabinet Member for Adults and Health in response to a series of questions asked by the Scrutiny Committee stemming from the changes in the Learning Disabilities Service.

b)    The Cabinet Member reported that it was necessary to transform the above service in order to ensure that innovative support is offered in Gwynedd.  In addition, it was necessary to introduce changes which will find savings, but more importantly, improve the outcome for the individual. Communication and promoting the changes and ensuring support and understanding of individuals and their families, staff and providers both internally and externally were key and led to effective cooperation to reach the aim and ensure better services for the needs of individuals.

c)    During the ensuing discussion the following points were noted by individual Members:

              i.        That they should press for confirmation from the Welsh Government regarding finance to extend the provision for autistic persons.

             ii.        The importance of informing parents / individuals / service users when it was necessary to re-organise meetings.

            iii.        Whilst supporting the vision to promote individuals to be independent there was concern regarding the impact at grassroots level and specifically supporting individuals with learning disabilities who go into the world of work and as a result lose benefits.  

           iv.        It was asked what would Gwynedd Council do as a postholder (Autism Key Worker) had resigned, to ensure that persons with learning disabilities received a worthy service.

            v.        The report was welcomed, however, it was noted that there were lessons to be learnt and reference was made to activities previously offered to persons with learning disabilities specifically at Ysgol Botwnnog and the tree nursery at Glynllifon that gave individuals a feeling of self-worth and were also beneficial.

           vi.        Cuts to the learning disabilities service would have a detrimental impact on individuals.

          vii.        Every Member should be encouraged to receive training on autism and how to deal with individuals.

         viii.        There was no reference to parents / families in the report and it was felt that they were being disregarded.

           ix.        A request for representatives with learning disabilities / mental health / autism to meet the Scrutiny Committee in order to hear their views and to come to understand and raise the Committee’s awareness of their needs.

            x.        Concern as a result of the changes between Gwynedd / Anglesey that individuals might lose out on services.

(d)        The Cabinet Member for Adults and Health and the officers responded to the observations made by individual Members as follows:

a)    It was explained that the ‘Key Ring’ model was national and gave arm’s length volunteer support to persons with learning disabilities and they were available if any emergency arose.  The scheme was not in operation in Gwynedd, however, it was further noted that it was necessary to be more innovative in the schemes available but it had to be borne in mind that each one was not suitable for Gwynedd due to the County’s geographical nature. 

b)    It was  ...  view the full minutes text for item 7.

To consider a report by the Chairman of the Scrutiny Investigation, Councillor Peter Read, on the above.

a)    The Vice-chair chaired the above item in order that the Chair, Cllr Peter Read, could present the above report and Meinir Williams and Ffion Johnstone from the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board were welcomed to the meeting to respond to the queries / observations of the Scrutiny Committee.

b)    The final draft report was presented by Cllr. Peter Read, Chair of the Scrutiny Investigation ‘From Hospital to the Home’, that focused on the arrangements for discharging and transferring patients home from hospital   The Chair thanked Health Board staff for their excellent cooperation together with the officers of various Council Departments who added value to the Investigation’s results and recommendations.

c)    The Members’ Support and Scrutiny Manager stated that the draft report before them contained the fruits of the Scrutiny Investigation’s labour that was commissioned by this Scrutiny Committee and attention was drawn to the following points: 

·         The nature of the report was different to the usual, mainly due to two reports regarding defective provision and scrutiny work that became evident in England.    Guidance was received to trial different ways of conducting scrutiny investigations to try and maximise the voice of the people within the Service and from the report it could be seen that there was more analysis and interpretation of data leading to the main recommendations to be submitted to the Cabinet Member for Adults and Health and the Health Board.

·         An apology was given for leaving out a reference in the report to a visit made by two members of the Investigation to the Ageing Well Centre at Cricieth. 

(d)       Any observations from the Scrutiny Committee on the main findings outlined in the report would be welcomed and the following points were noted: 

1.         Whilst accepting that Gwynedd performed well on the whole in terms of national comparison on the measure of transferring patients in a timely manner from hospital to the community, it was noted that problems were manifested during the weekends. 

In response, a representative from the Health Board explained that the weekends proved difficult in the transfer of patients during the summer due to the lack of Social Workers at the hospital over the weekend but this had worked well over the winter.  It was further noted that work was on-going on the above, however, the Health Board had more challenges regarding homes unable to receive patients back over the weekend due to staffing levels as well as the transfer of patients to community hospitals.  

2.         A representative of the Health Board recognised that drafting a care plan was her priority this year.   

1.    The need to collaborate with the Third Sector especially in the areas of Dwyfor and Meirionnydd.

2.    It was agreed that there was room for improvement in terms of discharging patients on the weekends.

3.    That there was a need to reconcile the arrangements and have a plan to discharge  ...  view the full minutes text for item 8.

To receive a progress report on the above.

(a)  A brief update was presented by the Cabinet Member for Education stemming from the review of the provision of additional learning needs and inclusion. 

(b)  The Cabinet Member for Education explained that there had been good progress made with support to the review.  Despite this he was of the view that more work needed to be achieved in terms of clarification to the workforce regarding the model.  It was proposed to submit a report to the Cabinet in June but it was felt that the timetable was premature and now it was proposed to submit the report to the Cabinet in September 2015.  In the meantime, it was noted that a special meeting had been arranged on 11 June 2015 with an invitation extended to the Additional Learning Needs Task Group (established by the Services Scrutiny Committee) together with Gwynedd members of the Special Educational Needs Joint Committee and some Cabinet Members.  It was further noted that a date had been specified on 15 June 2015 for the Additional Learning Needs Task Group to consider any further observations they wished to discuss stemming from the meeting on 11 June.

(c)  The Senior Manager Additional Learning Needs and Inclusion added that the strategy review was timely and attention should be given to the following three elements:

·         Upskilling teachers to provide for the needs of the pupils in order to make a difference

·         Collaboration with parents to enable them to assist in some way

·         Support children in the classroom

(d)        In response to a query by a Member regarding the number who attended the information fairs, that attendance was disappointing and it was noted that there were a combination of reasons for this.

(e)        In terms of the membership of the Additional Learning Needs Task Group, it was approved for Councillor Gweno Glyn to continue to be a member following her recent departure from the Services Scrutiny Committee.  

Resolved:       (a)       To accept and note the contents of the report.

                        (b)       To approve that Councillor Gweno Glyn continues to be a member of the Additional Learning Needs Task Group.

To consider a report by the Care Cabinet Member on the above.

A report was presented by the Cabinet Member for Adults and Health, outlining the future vision and direction of the Adult Service focusing specifically on the field of care for older people.   

The Cabinet Member for Adults and Health outlined the background and stated that a huge change was in the pipeline not only in Gwynedd, but for the whole of Wales.   He noted that a change of direction was vitally important and the key driver for change was the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, together with the views of older people about the type of services and provision they wish to see in their old age.   It was necessary to conduct comprehensive work with users and at the same time the financial cuts could not be ignored and if they sought to safeguard the current situation this meant financial savings in other fields. 

During the ensuing discussion, the following points were highlighted by individual Members:

a)      Dual registration had been discussed several times in the past and concern was expressed regarding the current system with patients being discharged from hospital to residential care homes for intermediate care and staff without appropriate qualifications to safeguard patients’ needs.  It was further felt that this was a means for the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to get patients out of hospital sooner.

b)     Disgruntledness that persons who had worked and contributed financially throughout their lives had to pay for care whilst others received it free of charge.

c)     That older people were eager to be independent for as long as possible before their health deteriorated.

d)    The above comment was supported and it was added that the infrastructure was not correct and individuals accessed the service when they were in crisis. 

e)    It was suggested that it would be beneficial for the Members of this Committee to receive a copy of the Social Services and Well-being Act together with training on the implications of the Act.

f)     The contents of the report disregarded the needs of older people and certain sections were frivolous. 

g)    Whilst recognising that the principles and the vision were excellent, concern was shared on how this would be implemented at grassroots and how accountability       would be ensured.

h)    Whilst agreeing that persons were eager to live independently it had to be recognised that the service had a responsibility if they were suffering and in the end this would be more costly.

i)     Concern that young doctors were not keen to work as GPs especially in rural areas. 

j)     It was stated that the need for care provision was increasing for incomers who move into the countryside and need a care provision as they have no family support living nearby.

k)    The telecare service was vital to many older people.

l)     That the respite care provision in Arfon was insufficient and there was a genuine need for such a provision for carers.

m)   The importance of collaboration with the third sector and reference was made to schemes  ...  view the full minutes text for item 10.