Agenda, decisions and minutes

To elect Chair for 2024-2025.

To elect Councillor Cai Larsen as Chair of this committee for 2024/25.

RESOLVED to elect Councillor Cai Larsen as Chair of this committee for 2024/25.

The Chair thanked his predecessor in the chair, Councillor Elwyn Jones, and also Councillor Paul Rowlinson, the former Vice-chair.

Two new members were welcomed on the committee, Councillors John Pughe and Sian Williams, and Councillors Paul Rownlinson and Sasha Williams were thanked for their service.

Sharon Roberts, the new Arfon Parent/Governor representative was welcomed on the committee, and her predecessor, Manon Williams, was thanked for her service.

The committee's best wishes were sent to Councillor Beth Lawton following a recent operation.

To elect Vice-chair for 2024-2025.

To defer this item until the next meeting.

As there was no nomination for the Vice-chair, the item was deferred until the next meeting.

RESOLVED to defer this item until the next meeting.

To receive any apologies for absence.

Apologies were received from Councillors Iwan Huws, Beth Lawton, Llio Elenid Owen and Sian Williams; Karen Vaughan Jones (Dwyfor Parent/Governor Representative) and Gwilym Jones (NASUWT).

To receive any declarations of personal interest.

The Chair declared a personal interest in item 9 (Safeguarding Arrangements in Schools) on behalf of every member who were school governors. It was not a prejudicial interest, and those members did not leave the meeting during the discussion on the item.

To note any items that are a matter of urgency in the view of the Chair for consideration.

None to note.

The Chair shall propose that the minutes of the previous meeting of this committee held on 21st March, 2024 be signed as a true record.

The Chair signed the minutes of the previous meeting of this committee held on 21 March 2024, as a true record.

To submit the GwE Annual Report for 2023-24.

To accept the report and note the observations.

Arwyn Thomas (GwE Managing Director) and Alwyn Jones (GwE Assistant Director (Standards)) were welcomed to the meeting. ⁠

The Managing Director of GwE delivered a few introductory words, thanking Cyngor Gwynedd and also this committee, for the support given to GwE and its staff over the years. 

GwE's Assistant Director (Standards) provided a summary of the content of the Annual Report and members were given the opportunity to ask questions and submit observations.

GwE was thanked for preparing a concise report this year.

It was suggested that the national trends contradicted what was noted in this report. I.e. although Key Area 2 (Improving Teaching and Learning) noted that the quality of the teaching was generally robust across the sectors, another report on this meeting's agenda declared that recent publications, including Estyn and PISA reports and the personal national report on the assessments, had noted that the quality of learning and outcomes within schools and across schools etc. required improvement.  In response, it was noted that levels of contradictory evidence were inevitable until the Government's direction in relation to the Accountability Framework in Wales had emerged.

It was noted that it seemed that Key Area 5 (Support and Challenge for Schools Causing Concern) focused on academic results almost without exception, and it was asked what would happen if there were concerns regarding other matters, e.g. Additional Learning Needs or the school leadership in general. In response, it was noted that the quality of leadership was at the core of all this and that its repercussions then filtered through to the quality of teaching and the provision that the children received, ultimately affecting the children's standards.

A member enquired how the 13 improvement priorities in the Annual Report 2022/23 had now reduced to 5. In response, it was noted that all aspects had been summarised into the 5 priorities in this report.

The honesty of the report was welcomed, such as the comment 'The quality of senior leadership is generally robust, but a few challenges remain in some specific areas' and ‘Inconsistency remains in the quality of implementation across the authority ...'.

The fact that eight teachers from Gwynedd had gained a National Professional Qualification for Headship (NPQH) this year was welcomed, but it was suggested that it would have been beneficial to state how the figure compared with the three previous years. In response, it was noted that the figure was fairly consistent in Gwynedd, and that it would be interesting to see in the next period how many would choose to use this qualification to lead in their local area.

RESOLVED to accept the report and to note the observations.

Cabinet Member – Councillor Beca Brown

To consider a report on the above.

To accept the report and note the observations.

Councillor Beca Brown (Cabinet Member for Education) and Gwern ap Rhisiart (Head of Education) were welcomed to the meeting. ⁠

Submitted – the report of the Cabinet Member for Education inviting the committee’s input on the proposed changes to the way that the school improvement service would be delivered in the future.

The Cabinet Member set out the context. She thanked GwE staff for all their work and support over the years, noting that their input and expert advice had been greatly appreciated by the schools.

The Head of Education expanded on the content of the report and members were then given an opportunity to ask questions and offer observations. ⁠ 

It was noted that the Welsh Government's draft guidance 'Collaborative model between schools, LAs and national government' noted that governing bodies should 'Consider their own arrangements for working with other governing bodies to support collective responsibility and collaborative improvement', and a member asked whether there was an intention to re-establish the Gwynedd Governing Body, which was in operation before Covid. In response, it was noted:

·         That they did intend to restore the Forum for governors, in hybrid form, while also looking at opportunities to make the body more collective.

·         That a Children and Young People's Forum was currently being established and that it was also natural to address school governance, to have everyone's voice in moving these aspects forward.

Concern was expressed that extending the collaboration between schools could mean that the lessons provided jointly would become increasingly English, given that two secondary schools in the county mostly operated as English schools. It was questioned whether the Council had guidance for joint-working to ensure that there was no slippage in the Welsh-medium provision. In response, it was explained that the new model did not suggest moving children from one school to another to get lessons, instead it referred to school leaders working and supporting each other.

It was suggested that the proposed arrangements seemed to be extremely challenging.  It was noted that there were all sorts of individual problems in every school and that it was important to have similar schools helping each other, instead of acting based on geographical clusters. It was also noted that headteachers were already overwhelmed, and that the expectation of taking on an additional role of helping other schools (although already doing so unofficially) would place a lot of extra pressure on them, especially in small schools. In response, it was noted that:-

·         Putting all of this into practice in Gwynedd schools would be very challenging for a number of reasons, including the fact that Gwynedd had so many school units, and many of those school units were small schools, and a very small number of non-contact headteachers.

·         The challenges highlighted what GwE had managed to do over the years, which was to go into the schools and tailor the leadership to individual schools, regardless of size.

·         They repeatedly emphasised in the discussions with the Welsh Government that our context in  ...  view the full minutes text for item 8.

Cabinet Member – Councillor Beca Brown

To consider a report on the above.

1.    To accept the report and to note the observations.

2.    To recommend that the Education Department provides a simple guidance on referreing any concerns, for use by all who deal with the system, such as governors and parents.

Dylan Owen (Statutory Director of Social Services) and Llion Williams (Assistant Head: Well-being and Equality) were welcomed to the meeting. ⁠ ⁠

Submitted – the report of the Cabinet Member for Education in response to a request by the members to receive information on safeguarding arrangements in schools, and on the guidance and support provided in this field by the Education Department so as to give assurance to committee members of the appropriateness of the arrangements.

The Cabinet Member for Education set out the context and the Head of Education also delivered a few words at the beginning.

Members were then given an opportunity to ask questions and submit observations. 

It was noted that a DBS check did not prove that someone was a safe person, but rather stated that a person had not yet been found guilty of a crime. In response, it was noted that:-

·         They agreed with the observation, and as well as the DBS, this Council asked for two references before appointing to any post.

·         There were only 0.07% of staff without a DBS at the moment, and there were specific reasons for that, e.g. long-term illness, a person suspended from work or people on supply lists who no longer wished to work for Gwynedd.

·         Efforts were underway almost daily to meet the 100% target.

·         The Safeguarding Operational Group monitored how many people have had a DBS, and if the percentages were lower than expected, it asked what was the explanation and justification for that.

It was enquired how much monitoring took place to ensure that the designated safeguarding person in a school completed all the necessary training. In response, it was noted:-

·         That training was provided by the Authority in the form of small groups, so that people had the opportunity to ask questions that they might not ask in larger groups.

·         That the nature of the training was now more fun and interactive, and that the feedback from these annual sessions was very positive.

·         In terms of monitoring, governing bodies had a responsibility to have a person overseeing child protection on the body, and that person would be expected to meet with the designated safeguarding person to discuss the situation in the school in terms of safeguarding children.

·         That training was also provided for governors on their monitoring role and supporting the designated safeguarding person within the school.

·         That Gwynedd was one of the few authorities in Wales that undertook quality assurance checks, where the designated officer in the county goes to a school and carries out a detailed investigation which then feeds into an authority overview.  By doing so, they could see if there were things that were not being done properly, what they were and whether the training needed to be refined to improve the guidance given to designated persons.

·         That the Safeguarding Operational Group monitored the number of people who had received safeguarding training, etc., and reported regularly to the Safeguarding Strategic Panel.

It was noted that it was hoped that  ...  view the full minutes text for item 9.

Cabinet Member – Councillor Nia Jeffreys

To consider a report on the above.

1.    To accept the report and note the observations.

2.    To request that the Eryri National Park Authority make every effort to consult with county councillors where appropriate.

3.    That the Economy and Community Department when undertaking research, looks at the specific matters raised by the committee regarding data etc.

Councillor Nia Jeffreys (Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Operational Economy Matters), Roland Evans (Assistant Head – Culture) and Angela Jones (Head of Partnerships – Eryri National Park) were welcomed to the meeting. ⁠

Submitted – the report of the Leader and the Deputy Leader and Cabinet Member for Operational Economy Matters providing an update on the Gwynedd and Eryri Sustainable Visitor Economy Plan 2035, and they invited the committee to scrutinise the progress, the Action Plan and the Measures.

The Cabinet Member set out the context and the members were then given an opportunity to ask questions and offer observations. ⁠ 

The Cabinet Member was thanked for showing a genuine interest in the field and attending local meetings related to the subject, which highlighted the ease of connection within the Council to be able to make such a scheme a reality.

It was noted that the report stated that extensive consultation had taken place when developing the Plan, but with the exception of the workshops held at the beginning, it was not believed that another consultation had taken place with county councillors, at least. An enquiry was made about what consultation had taken place in the National Park area, and with whom? In response, it was noted:-

·         That the consultation took place widely between everyone. Several sessions were held between the Council and the Park with all councillors across the area, including the rural area of Conwy which was in the Park.

·         That the partnership that had been created replaced the former Destination Management Group which previously existed and was maintained by the Council, with the Park feeding into that as well.

·         The Group that had now been established, representing businesses and communities, was an innovative group and truly represented the whole area.  As such, for the first time, there was a full picture of all the projects and activities taking place across the whole area.

·         In addition to the formal consultation, four briefing notes had also been sent to all community councils and councillors across the area, and a further briefing note was planned to be sent to everyone shortly providing an update on everything that had happened over the last few months.

·         That there was also an intention to hold an annual conference that brought together everyone who was interested in the subject, and this was again quite a new and wide-ranging way of getting input from the whole area.

In response, it was noted that it was accepted that there had been consultation at the beginning, but it was believed that such a scheme required ongoing consultation. The member also noted that this was the first time that he had heard about the briefing note, and that he was unaware that he had received it. He also noted, as there was no statutory requirement for the Park to consult with county councillors, they were usually left out, and he called on the Park to consult much better with county councillors on matters that were happening within the Park.  ...  view the full minutes text for item 10.

Present the Committee’s draft work programme for 2024/25 for adoption.

To adopt the work programme for 2024/25.

Submitted – the committee's forward programme for 2024/25.

RESOLVED to adopt the work programme for 2024-25.

To nominate a representative to attend the Finance Department Performance Challenge meetings.

To nominate Councillor Cai Larsen to represent the Education and Economy Scrutiny Committee in the Finance Department's Performance Challenge meetings.

Submitted – the Scrutiny Advisor's report inviting the committee to nominate a member to represent the committee at the Finance Department's Performance Challenge meetings to replace Councillor Paul Rowlinson who had now resigned from the committee following his appointment as Cabinet Member for Finance.

RESOLVED to nominate Councillor Cai Larsen to represent the Education and Economy Scrutiny Committee at the Finance Department's Performance Challenge Meetings.