Agenda and minutes

To receive any apologies for absence.

Councillors Anwen Davies and R. Medwyn Hughes. 

Councillor Craig ab Iago (Cabinet Member for Housing and Property)

To receive any declarations of personal interest.

The following members declared a personal interest in item 7 - Domiciliary Care Project - for the reasons noted below:-

·         Councillor Dewi Roberts, Chair, as his wife was employed in the care sector in the Dwyfor Area.

·         Councillor Eryl Jones-Williams as his wife received domiciliary care.

·         Councillor Angela Russell as her father received domiciliary care.

·         Councillor Gareth T. M. Jones as his mother received domiciliary care.

The members were of the opinion that they were prejudicial interests, and they withdrew from the meeting during the discussion on the item.  In the absence of the Chair, the item was chaired by the Vice-chair, Councillor Beth Lawton.

To note any items that are a matter of urgency in the view of the Chairman for consideration.

None to note.

The Chairman shall propose that the minutes of the previous meeting of this committee held on the 12^th September, 2019 be signed as a true record. 

The Chair signed the minutes of the previous meeting of this committee held on 12 September 2019 as a true record.

Cabinet Members – Councillors Craig ag Iago, Dafydd Meurig and Dilwyn Morgan

To consider a report on the above

Submitted - the report of the Cabinet Member for Children and Young People, the Cabinet Member for Adults, Health and Well-being and the Cabinet Member for Housing and Property; inviting the committee to scrutinise the savings proposals made by the Children and Supporting Families Department, the Adults, Health and Well-being Department and the Housing and Property Department to cope with their share of the possible £2m deficit in the 2020/21 budget, and to consider what that, or the alternative options, might entail.

The Cabinet Member and heads of department expanded on the content of the report, and also responded to questions/observations by the Members.

Children and Supporting Families Department Savings

During the discussion, concern was expressed by a number of members that the cut of £30,000 to Women's Aid would lead to greater costs to the Council in the long term, and the importance of a full assessment of the possible impact to the Council was emphasised.

In response to an enquiry, the Head of the Children and Supporting Families department explained that the historic plans were very ambitious.  She gave detail regarding the element which had already been realised, noting that a taskforce had been established to determine whether the remaining savings could be found elsewhere.  There was little detail to be had on this so far, but she noted that she could bring a report back to the committee in future.

The Chief Executive added that the taskforce's report could be brought back for members to observe, but as the Cabinet needed to make a fairly quick decision regarding the savings proposals, time was limited.

Adults, Health and Well-being Department

During the discussion, the following observations were submitted by members:

·         General concern was expressed regarding the impact of the savings proposals on vulnerable county residents, and the importance of monitoring the impact was emphasised.

·         A number of members expressed particular concern regarding the proposal to cut two Mental Health Support Worker positions (£42,000), in light of the increasing demand for the service as a result of the significant increase in mental health problems amongst children and young people.  It was suggested that there was a need for more rather than fewer workers, and that this cut would ultimately cost more to the Council.  It was also noted that mental health was a Welsh Government and Health Board priority, and that the service should be provided by the Health Board.  However, the work was being passed on to the councils, which had insufficient resources to complete it. 

·         A number of members expressed particular concern regarding the proposal to reduce the budget for supporting carers, including some respite schemes (£19,000).  It was emphasised that the stress for families affected would be terrible and that this cut would ultimately cost more to the Council.

On a general note, an enquiry was made as to whether the Health Board contributed as it should, e.g. the cost of caring for vulnerable people discharged from hospitals fell on the Council.  In response, the Head  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

Cabinet Member – Councillor Dilwyn Morgan

To consider a report on the above.

Submitted - the report of the Cabinet Member for Children and Young People, providing an overview of the complaints, information requests and statements of appreciation received during 2018/19.

The Cabinet Member and officers expanded on the content of the report, and also responded to questions / observations from the members.

The committee's appreciation of the staff's hard work was expressed, and it was noted that it was positive to see that so few complaints had been received, and that so few of those complaints had progressed to Step 2.

It was noted that although the historic information was included in the report, that it would be beneficial to see the figures in the form of a table, so as to clearly see whether a pattern had developed.

Referring to complaint GC/3257-15 in Appendix 3 to the report, and specifically to the Ombudsman's strong view that autism training should be available to everyone within the Department, and not limited to Derwen staff, an enquiry was made as to whether there had been any further development on this matter.  In response, the Senior Safeguarding and Quality Manager noted:-

·         In addition to the question of training, that there was a question regarding social workers' ability to cope with situations where extremely specialist elements were present within assessments.

·         That a new service was now in place at a North Wales level, and a procedure in place so that teams within children's services could gain clarity in terms of what could be offered in addition to what previously existed.

·         That this interlinked with matters such as guidance for access to Derwen services, and whether someone who had autism and had ability and was able to act independently was considered disabled, etc.

·         Therefore, there was much complexity in this case between the legal advice given, the wording of the legislation, and the Ombudsman's decision in terms of how that should be interpreted.

·         Following the Ombudsman's latest challenge, that a specialist in the autism field had been commissioned to further support the Council in ensuring that the arrangements were stronger for the future. 

·         As there was a strong lobby for this type of specialist services, the Council faced considerable pressure to be able to assess in accordance with its duties; but it was believed that the new interlinking with the service for North Wales was beneficial in reinforcing this.

·         That a response had been sent to the Ombudsman on this matter, and that there had been further discussions between the Council and the Ombudsman regarding to what extent the Ombudsman was satisfied with the steps the Council had now put in place.

The Cabinet Member noted that he did not wish for the committee to go into overly detailed discussion on this matter as the case was a live one and referred to an individual.  He explained that the Council did not have much experience of dealing with the Ombudsman, as only one case had arisen in several years, and he suggested that the Chief Executive could  ...  view the full minutes text for item 7.

Cabinet Member – Councillor Dafydd Meurig

To consider a report on the above.

Submitted - the report of the Cabinet Member for Adults, Health and Well-being, providing an overview of the complaints, enquiries and statements of appreciation received during 2018/19.

The Cabinet Member and officers expanded on the content of the report, and also responded to questions / observations from the members.

The Department was congratulated on the reduction in the number of complaints, and the committee's appreciation of the staff's hard work was expressed.

RESOLVED to accept the report.

Cabinet Member – Councillor Dafydd Meurig

To consider a report on the above.

The meeting was chaired by the Vice-chair during the discussion on this item, due to the Chair's interest in the matter in question.

Submitted - the report of the Cabinet Member for Adults, Health and Well-being, providing a brief update on the work which was ongoing to ensure a new model for domiciliary care provision in Gwynedd.

The Cabinet Member and officers expanded on the content of the report, and also responded to questions / observations from the members.

During the discussion, the following observations were submitted by members:

·         It was noted that this new model for domiciliary care provision put Gwynedd at the forefront of the field.

·         The emphasis on communication with workers was welcomed.

·         The collaboration with the Health Board to present the business case to the Finance and Planning Committee was welcomed, and hope was expressed that there would be joint-commissioning, as this would be beneficial to both partners. 

·         It was noted that it was encouraging to hear, should some providers withdraw / fail to meet the requirements, that the Council had considerably sized internal providers which could employ the staff.

It was noted that the committee would receive further information as the work moved forward, and that there would also be a need to discuss with the Chair and Vice-chair.

RESOLVED to accept the report.