To receive a
presentation by the Welsh Language Commissioner on his work.
Minutes:
Aled Roberts, the Welsh Language Commissioner was welcomed to the
meeting to give members a presentation on his work.
The Commissioner gave an outline of what he regarded
as the purpose of his role, focusing on his impressions of the Welsh language's
situation across Wales. The following
key points were highlighted during his presentation:
·
That he was very keen to know what challenges faced
this Council and to see what support his office could provide.
·
That after embarking on his job in April 2019, he had
travelled the length and breadth of Wales for six months in an attempt to fully
comprehend the actual situation of the Welsh language, and that he had realised
that the situation varied greatly from one part of Wales to another, with some
parts making him feel hopeful and others dampening his spirits at times.
·
That Gwynedd Council's internal Welsh-language
administration and some of its policies were to be commended and that there was
room perhaps to disseminate this good practice across Wales.
·
Although the 2050 Welsh Language Strategy was the
responsibility of the Welsh Government, that there was room for him too, as
Commissioner, to ensure that the powers he possessed reinforced that strategy.
·
That the priorities of the Office of the Commissioner
in the first few years in terms of the standards and in terms of local
authorities had been to ensure that documents and services were available
bilingually, but nowadays local authorities were expected to self-regulate to
some extent.
·
That there were much more important standards than these
regarding the future of the language, namely the standards involving the need
for the Welsh Government and local government to assess the impact of various
policies on the Welsh language and standards involving internal administration.
·
That he was also very eager to do more work on
promotion plans, as the only requirement on councils at present was that they
prepare a plan every five years, and there was no reference to monitoring nor
challenging those plans. Therefore, he
wished the Office to consider the content of the Gwynedd Promotion Plan.
·
That the duties of the Office were shared between
regulatory responsibilities and promotion responsibilities. The act required that the Office accomplishes
the regulatory responsibilities, but as those responsibilities increase, and
resources diminish, it becomes increasingly difficult to undertake promotion
work. Therefore, it had to be ensured
somehow that resources are released internally to enable the Office to undertake
more promotion work.
·
Despite his agreement with every point in the Gwynedd
Promotion Plan, that there was room to ask how successful the Council was in
terms of its objective, e.g. in relation to the childcare sufficiency
assessment, approximately 40% of placements were within bilingual situations,
but there was no definition of 'bilingual situation'.
·
That the situation of the Welsh language varied
greatly across Gwynedd and that he had not realised before that some areas of
the county were so Anglicised. He
referred specifically to the excellent work being done by the head of Ysgol Bro
Idris in developing a Welsh ethos at the school under very difficult
circumstances.
·
That the fact that children speak Welsh fluently by
the time they start secondary education highlights the strength of the county's
primary sector education policy, but there was room for the Council to consider
its education policy in the secondary sector.
There was also room to question what was happening with regard to the
transfer of language in the home as it appears that the school, and not the
home, is now safeguarding the Welsh language.
It was also important that children did not regard Welsh as only
mattering in school.
·
That the Welsh-language education provision could be
confusing and inconsistent in some bilingual schools, with fewer pupils than
should be the case sitting five or more GCSEs through the medium of Welsh.
·
That the conversation was ongoing regarding post-16
provision. There was no Welsh-medium
education within further education in the south east, and approximately 85% of
the expenditure on the Welsh language in further education went to two colleges
in Wales.
·
That there was room to thank Gwynedd for the steps
taken with regard to apprenticeships.
·
That all strategies in relation to the language show
that young people who had been in Welsh-language education do not continue to
use the Welsh language after reaching 16 years of age, nor bring their children
up in due course to speak the language naturally. This meant that millions had to be invested
in introducing the language to the next generation of children in the schools
and the situation was not sustainable.
There was a need to ensure that the health authorities had strategies to
introduce the language to young parents and there were responsibilities on
local authorities to ensure that childcare was available locally in the Welsh
language for those young parents. Also,
the situation of the Welsh language had to be consolidated within the schools
and ensure that this continues through to the secondary sector and on to
post-16 education.
·
That there was a responsibility on the Welsh
Government and British Government to ensure work opportunities for young people
in the north-west and that civil-service based salaries are paid in
Gwynedd. It should also be borne in mind
that losing jobs in north Wales, especially in the north-west, has a greater
impact due to the fragile nature of the economy.
·
That Cymraeg 2050 did not define 'Welsh speaker', but
that there was a more important second target, i.e. that we increase the
percentage that uses Welsh on a daily basis from the current 10% to
approximately 20% by 2050. There was
much greater hope of hitting the target if the Welsh language stood its ground,
or gained ground, in Gwynedd as there were many more opportunities to use the
Welsh language daily in Gwynedd than in other places.
·
That he did not wish to see Wales in the same
situation as Ireland. The Irish
language was Ireland's official first language, but of the 1.76m people who
stated that they could speak the language (i.e. quite a similar percentage to
the target of 1m Welsh speakers in Wales by 2050), only 56,000 said that they
used the language on a daily basis. It
is easy to think, that because the language has been accorded status for the
first time, we are winning the battle, but the battle would be won in our
homes, in workplaces and in colleges.
·
That he was hopeful for the future and saw a change in
relation to the standards, and nowadays, it was not possible for any council to
challenge the Office of the Commissioner as to what they should be doing in
relation to the Welsh language, because it was now legislation. There was, however, a lot more promotion work
to be done, and specifically to promote the use of the Welsh language.
Members were given an opportunity to ask
questions and offer observations. During
the discussion the following matters were raised:
·
The Commissioner was thanked for providing the
committee with a dose of reality, and the importance of increasing and improving
what we had was emphasised.
·
The hope was expressed that schools' categorisation
would be realised.
·
It was noted that it was not understood why we
encourage our young people to attend colleges outside Wales, and why the Welsh
Government pays to send them to those places.
·
This Council, it was noted, was hopeful and ambitious
for the language, and shared the Commissioner's vision in relation to promoting
use of the language and good practice.
·
It was asked how the Council could work with the
Office of the Commissioner to ensure more opportunities for people to use Welsh
in the field of technology.
·
It was noted that the education sector had now become
very important in producing Welsh speakers and that it was likely that a greater
number of Welsh speakers was now being produced by the education system than in
the home.
·
It was noted that it appeared that the way of hitting
the target of a million Welsh speakers by 2050 was by increasing the number of
children in Welsh-language education throughout Wales, although it was
acknowledged that this increase would be gradual.
·
The demand for Welsh-language education in south-east
Wales, it was noted, exceeded the provision, and it was asked to what extent it
could be ensured that anyone who wished to receive Welsh-language education
could have access to it within a reasonable distance.
·
There was reference to Ysgol y Traeth, Barmouth as an
example of a school that succeeded in accomplishing innovative work with the
Welsh language in an area without a tradition of Welsh. It was noted that conditioning pupils and
their parents to see the advantage of Welsh as a subject and medium in such
areas was an uphill struggle.
·
It was noted that the Welsh language was important as
a qualification for careers in Gwynedd and was seen as a language of
opportunity, but that more pressure needed to be brought to bear on other
authorities across Wales to appoint bilingual staff.
·
The 'Doctoriaid Yfory' (Tomorrow's Doctors) scheme is
a very good way of breaking new ground, it was noted.
·
It was noted that Ysgol Gynradd Rhiwlas continues to
do good work in relation to the Welsh language, but that the children who
transfer to Ysgol Friars soon forget their Welsh.
·
The importance of ensuring that the Planning Department
has regard for the influence of any development on the language was emphasised,
irrespective of whether or not it is stipulated in the Development Plan.
In response to some of the above
observations and questions, the Commissioner noted:
·
That he had been partly responsible for drawing up the
current policy to fund students, and that legal advice at the time stated that
it was not possible to restrict admission to colleges in Wales.
·
In terms of technology, that the responsibility had
transferred from the Office of the Commissioner to the Government since
September of last year, and that this was significant, as Government resources
were much greater and they had greater influence in purchasing systems,
etc. Representatives from the Office
discussed problems raised by Gwynedd Council in relation to Welsh-language apps
with the Government and it was important that the Council continued to refer
practical problems of this type to the Office of the Commissioner so as to
enable steps to be taken for them to be resolved.
·
That meeting the demand for Welsh-language education
depended on the Government's figures regarding the requirement for growth
corresponding to actual demand. It was
believed that there was enough slack within the system at present to ensure
that this happened, but should the demand exceed what was planned by the
Government and local government, an interesting discussion would ensue. This would not entail building new schools
everywhere, but some schools would be called upon to change their language
medium. It was also necessary to be
realistic about the lack of planning over the last 10-15 years in terms of the
number of Welsh-medium teachers needed to meet what we had at present, let
alone growth.
·
That the need was agreed to increase the opportunities
available for young people to use the Welsh language in the workplace. An assessment was carried out of how many
councils denoted jobs as Welsh essential ones and it was observed that the
processes were comparatively elementary, with some tending to use Welsh
essential solely within the Education Department, and others having no language
requirements. It was further noted that the Government had established the
Health Education and Improvement Wales body which did not come under the standards
even, and the Health Board's 'Mwy na Geiriau/More than Words' project was not
being monitored at all. It is
acknowledged that the attempt to attract more Welsh-speaking doctors is
commendable, however the Office receives more language complaints in relation
to the health boards than in relation to local government. There was no lack of commitment to the Welsh
language at a strategic level, rather a lack of implementation at grass roots
level. Although councils led the way in
terms of standards, they failed to provide Welsh-language services due to their
failure to appoint Welsh speakers, and part of his work during the next six to
seven years would be to endeavour to the best of his ability to complete the
circle so that all the investment in education was not wasted.
·
That the numbers sitting Welsh first language
examinations at Ysgol Friars had risen.
Schools marketed themselves on the basis of how many A* - C grades their
pupils were awarded, and it was natural for non-Welsh-speaking families to want
their children to sit a Welsh second language examination as they would be more
likely to get a good grade. Perhaps it
was necessary to ensure that children who had received a Welsh-language primary
education sat a Welsh first language examination, so that they were fluent in
Welsh on leaving school. He added that
there was no legislative basis to schools' categorisation. The provision could be confusing and
inconsistent in some bilingual schools, with fewer taking subjects through the
medium of Welsh than should be the case.
He referred to a particular school outside of Gwynedd which fell into
bilingual category 2A (which meant that 80% of the pupils should be receiving a
Welsh-language education), noting that when he looked at the figures, he saw that
only 37% of pupils sat examinations through the medium of Welsh in at least
five of their subjects. When the school
was asked about the situation, it was explained that excessively pushing the
Welsh language meant that the school would lose children to a neighbouring
school. The education consortia and
Estyn also had a responsibility to draw attention to any problems in terms of
schools' language category in comparison to what was happening in classes. The legal responsibility lay with the county
councils, but very rarely did councils send people into schools to find out
what was going on. In his opinion, if a
school was a bilingual one, the child should be leaving school at the age of 16
able to speak Welsh, but as this did not happen, a discussion was needed about
categorisation. It was not possible to
have a compromise as happened in the past, as all that compromise did was to
weaken the language's situation.
·
In terms of planning, there was room for the Welsh
Government to decide whether the new TAN 20 or the legislation was the way
forward. Another conversation was to be
had with the Planning Inspector as they moved to a situation where the Planning
Inspectorate served Wales only. Perhaps
the Welsh language had not been a strength in terms of their assessments under
the system historically, but this was something that would have to be developed
in moving forward. This was not a matter
for the county councils, but there was a need to make sure that the entire
planning system paid adequate attention to the Welsh language.
The
Commissioner was thanked for his interesting and inspiring presentation and for
responding to the members' questions and observations. The desire to invite him back to the
committee to continue the discussion was expressed and good wishes were
extended to him in his work.
In
response, the Commissioner noted that he would be keen to return to the
committee to discuss some of the practical problems, such as education and
planning, as everyone was working towards the same aim.
The
members were invited to contact the Office of the Commissioner if they had any
further comments or questions.
In
response to a further question by a member, the Commissioner confirmed that the
Office did not have a role in relation to correct language in schools nor in
relation to house and farm names, although it did have a responsibility for
village and town names.