Agenda item

To present 2 letters from the Auditor General for Wales, dated 30 September 2020 –

·         North Wales regional pooled fund in relation to care home places for older people (Appendix 1)

·         Regional pooled funds in relation to care home places for older people (Appendix 2)

To accept the report, noting the Auditor General's letters and the viewpoint of the region's local authorities and the Health Board.

Submitted  - the report of the Head of Finance Department, drawing members' attention to two letters submitted by the Auditor General for Wales following receipt of post-audit comments on local extracts, on residential and nursing care in north Wales (specifically in Conwy and Denbighshire councils). It was highlighted that although the reviews discussed the local arrangements in Conwy and Denbighshire, Audit Wales had concerns regarding the north Wales region's pragmatic solution to the challenge of creating a pooled budget for care home placements for older people. It was explained that the regional pooled fund was a partnership between the six north Wales councils and Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board (BCUHB). The regional partnership had concerns regarding the accountability of a broader pooled fund, and had established a low risk system, however, Audit Wales had noted that the current system did not offer value for money and did not deliver any of the intended benefits of a pooled fund.

          The Audit Wales Representative noted that the Fund had been established in response to the requirements of the Social Services and Well-being Act (Wales 2014) with Denbighshire leading on the administration of the Fund. It was reiterated that the fund's administration costs were approximately £20k, and that transferring money back and forth between the regional partners did not benefit the service user and was not a good use of public money. 

          In response, the Head of Finance Department noted that the arrangement allowed the local authorities to comply with the requirements of the Act and to identify the scale of relevant action across the region. He highlighted that he was satisfied that the arrangement minimised the risk, and that broader benefits derived from the contribution to Denbighshire's role. He added that the region's treasurers along with the BCUHB treasurer would meet on 30/11/20 to discuss the matter further.

          The Corporate Director reiterated that including the regional requirements in the Act was a misjudgement, and that extending the pooled fund would not deliver benefits for the services users.  She suggested that local funds would be the best method, with flexibility to respond to the need in Gwynedd, whilst the regional procedures should focus on frameworks and structures.

          The Cabinet Member reiterated that extending the pooled fund arrangements would maximise the risk of losing control and there was a need to safeguard Gwynedd taxpayers.

          Members expressed their thanks for the report.

          In response to a question regarding the implications of not complying with the requirements of the Act, it was noted that the north Wales region had decided to limit the implementation while complying with the Act.  

          In response to a question about the role of the Health Board, it was explained that BCUHB made a contribution across the region to the nursing care budget.

During the discussion, members raised the following matters:-

·         The Act was not the best tool for governing the money

·         That the legislation was an example of the Government’s inability to listen to the comments / opinions of local authorities

·         That officers were doing the minimum they could to comply with an unnecessary arrangement

·         The Government had not stated clearly what its intention was in pooling the budget or the intended benefits

·         Any legislation should focus on developing fields where collaboration and joint commissioning was needed - pooling should happen on planning matters, but not on finance matters.

·         That the situation was unfortunate.

·         There should be a mandate to change the arrangement - need to reconsider the Act - the Government had not listened- a suggestion was made to correspond with the Government and ask it to amend the act to have a firm arrangement in place

·         That the dissatisfaction of the Committee regarding the regional discussions should be conveyed

DECISION:

To accept the report, noting the Auditor General's letters and the viewpoint of the region's local authorities and the Health Board.