To consider any
questions the appropriate notice for which have been given under Section 4.19
of the Constitution.
Minutes:
(The Cabinet Members' written responses to the questions had been
distributed to the members in advance).
(1) Question from Councillor Mike Stevens
"Many members feel they were completely
misled when we were forced to accept the Joint Local Development Plan (JLDP) in
2017. At the time we were told the plan
was a living document that could be updated at any time. Now we are told the plan cannot be altered
for three years. Given the desperate
housing crisis and the massive housing shortage we now face what direction will
be given to planning officers to be more flexible and not so draconian in their
interpretation of planning guidelines to allow greater development?"
Response by the Leader, Councillor Dyfrig
Siencyn
"I do not accept that members
were misled in 2017 when they adopted the Joint Local Development Plan. The
comprehensive report set out the annual monitoring arrangements which have been
undertaken since its adoption. The
concept of constant monitoring and review is built into the Local Plan process,
an arrangement which was not part of previous development plan systems.
Annual
monitoring reports have been prepared since the Plan was adopted, and
considered against the monitoring framework. The first annual monitoring report
was presented to the Communities Scrutiny Committee, of which you are a member,
in 2019, and at the same time briefing sessions were arranged for all Members
to communicate the findings of the report. In 2020 Welsh Government relaxed the
statutory requirement to formally submit annual monitoring reports, due to the
pandemic. However, the Council still produced a draft annual monitoring report
which is on the Council’s website and again, briefing sessions were arranged
for all Members. The evidence from the
annual monitoring reports did not support the need for an early review of the
plan. It is now four years since the
adoption of the Plan and there is therefore a legal requirement to undertake a
review. Evidence from all the annual monitoring reports will feed into this
process.
As
reported to the Council in June 2021, there are steps which need to be followed
in the review process in order to decide on changes to the Plan.
Whether
they are members of the Planning Committee or Officers making delegated
decisions planning decisions must be made in accordance with the adopted Local
Development Plan unless material planning considerations indicate otherwise.
That is the legal requirement.
The idea that a direction might be
given to approach these decisions in any other way is merely inviting members
and officers to act unlawfully. I also take exception to the statement that
officers are inflexible or draconian in their advice. When such an allegation
is made outside appropriate channels, with no reference to any evidence, it
serves to unfairly undermine officers and the confidence to the public in the
planning system and the control development."
A supplementary question by
Councillor Mike Stevens
"The fact that
the Local Development Plan fails the people of Gwynedd is clear from the crisis
we are now facing. The plan, adopted in 2017, has seriously outdated because of
the way the world has changed. Therefore, will you arrange an urgent Council
meeting and that we put aside the fixed regulations in order to have a full and
open discussion regarding the current crisis?"
Response by the Leader, Councillor Dyfrig
Siencyn
"I have some sympathy with the frustration
of Councillor Mike Stevens but, in essence, his complaint is against the
planning system we have and, personally, I believe a radical reform is needed
in that planning system. However, this is not on the agenda of the Government
and even if it was, it would take years to develop. The steps that we take to
review the Local Development Plan are enforced upon us. They are statutory. You
have seen the letters we have received from the Minister. We must adhere to the
statutory process, namely Welsh Government guidelines, and this takes
time. We have to, and this is the
important point. I am sorry, but we have no choice. If we will not follow this
system, and the threat is clear in the Minister's letter, then we may be in a
position where the Minister states that our plans, or our adaptations, have no
grounds, and we will not be able to take action. Therefore, we must do so,
despite what we feel about the existing system.
By the way, the review has commenced and meetings will be held at the
beginning of November for all members for you to discuss the Local Development
Plan matter. In addition to this, in terms of the problem of holiday and second
homes, I do not believe that this can be resolved via the Local Development
Plan, but via other matters. There is a need to review the Local Development
Plan, but most importantly, and I believe that this is part of the democratic
process, we must obtain everyone's opinions, the electors, any stakeholders. We
cannot push something through alone or we will be at risk of failing to review
the Local Development Plan. I am sorry to disagree with Councillor Mike Stevens
with regards to this and I am certain that we can have a mature conversation
about the matter in future."
(2) Question from Councillor Angela Russell
"I would like to
ask a question about a matter regarding vaccinating children and young people
against Covid-19.
Can I say, right at the outset, that this has
nothing to do with whether one believes in Covid or not, or whether you believe
in vaccinating or not. That is not what I am raising by asking this question.
We must also remember that none of us at this meeting are medical experts in
this complex field.
But I am going to ask here about our
responsibility as councillors, and some of us are school governors also. I am
extremely concerned about the issue of vaccinating children. As children and young people are offered the
Covid vaccine, the experts tell us that this will reduce the disruption to
children's education during the winter months, and will benefit those who live
in the poorest areas, or who already suffer from health disorders.
It frightens me that children, under 18 years
old, can take the vaccine without parental consent. Too young to legally have sex, to marry, to
vote ... but it is okay for them to take the vaccine without consent. This
worries me greatly.
I have been
approached by many parents who are very concerned about the situation. I have advised them to write to the school
expressing their concerns.
As a Governor of two
schools, I am very much aware of my responsibilities as a Member of a Governing
Board. Teachers have to obtain parental consent to give tablets to children, to
apply sun cream, etc.
In loco parentis –
the school is responsible.
·
What is our responsibility as Governors, who are Members of the
Governing Boards of these schools, and responsible for the school and its
children?
·
What is our responsibility should something, great or small, go wrong if
a child is harmed by the vaccine?
·
What is the Governing Board’s responsibility at such time, and us as
Governors?"
Response from the Cabinet Member for
Education, Councillor Cemlyn Williams
"I am not going
to repeat the whole written response, but the first paragraph fundamentally
states that the vaccination programme is run by NHS Wales and the Welsh
Government. It was their decision to introduce a vaccination programme for
12-15 year olds.
There is some
background information in the written response, but to respond particularly to
Councillor Angela Russell, the last paragraph elaborates on the role of schools
and governors, namely that even though schools, and also governors in this
context of course, can agree to undertake on-site immunisation services and
help to distribute information, they are not responsible for securing
parental or child consent, assessing Gillick competence or mediating between
parents and children who may disagree about whether or not to consent. This is the role of the school nurses, who
have the expertise and experience to handle such issues. Registered nurses are professionally
accountable."
A supplementary question by Councillor Angela
Russell
"GPs have been
receiving over £25 for both Covid vaccines and I understand that there is an
extra £10 for vaccinating children. Therefore, will this go over £35 per child
for both vaccines, and who received the money for vaccinating thousands of
children - the school nurse, the school, Gwynedd Council or Betsi Cadwaladr
Health Board? Many parents will keep
their children at home. Absences will be high. How much additional funding will
be available in the budget for home-schooling?"
Response from the Cabinet Member for
Education, Councillor Cemlyn Williams
"As far as the
budget is in the question, I am unaware of any additional cost for Gwynedd
Council. Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board is
undertaking this and I have further information about that. As I noted in the response to the original question,
Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board does not intend to introduce these vaccinations in
schools. The Board notes "at this
time, we do not intend to vaccinate this age group in school clinics, but we
will continue to review this decision.The intention is to mainly use
vaccination centres on weekends and during the evenings, and a parent will be
expected to accompany their child to give consent". Therefore, unless the
situation changes, there will be no responsibility on schools or governors
regarding the role of vaccinations, and as I have already noted, only trained
nurses will be responsible for securing parental or child consent."
(3) Question from Councillor Gruffydd Williams
"In the 2017 full Council
meeting, the Local Development Plan was narrowly passed by the casting vote of
the Chair. At the time, a number of members who had voted both in favour and
against expressed the view that it was flawed.
The Leadership stated that this was a live Plan and that it could be
changed. At that time, should it not have been vital for the Leadership and the
Officers to inform members of the Council that the review process which would
take place in 4 years time was going to take an additional 3 and a half
years?"
Response from the Deputy Leader, Councillor
Dafydd Meurig
"This question is similar to the earlier
question by Councillor Mike Stevens regarding the process of drawing up a Local
Development Plan.To an extent, I share the frustration that we are in a very
cumbersome and statutory planning system, and that so much work is involved
with every step in order to deliver, and this is also true of the monitoring
and reviewing process. It is a system that has been set in statute. I hope that everyone has had an opportunity
to read the written response and apart from that, I cannot add much more to that,
only to share the frustration regarding the planning system."
Supplementary question from Councillor
Gruffydd Williams
"Given that each of the 65 indicators in
the recent monitoring report state that no further action is needed, rather
than what would be expected in the midst of a housing crisis, namely a
suggestion to change the policies, then it follows that there will be no change
to policies during the review period. In
that case, is this not a stagnant plan that justifies itself via vague
statistics and dooms our communities and the Welsh language to their demise
and, therefore, in light of the fact that the Leadership has led us to an
inescapable swamp, should they consider their position and resign?"
Response from the Deputy Leader, Councillor
Dafydd Meurig
"I do not know what I can add to what I
have already said. The document is not a defunct document. It is a live document and is currently being
reviewed. Of course, things have changed during the last four years - there are
changes in terms of Wylfa newydd, the impact of Brexit can be seen, the impact
of Covid is seen and climate change is a factor. Major changes have taken place and there will
be a review, and it is likely that a review will take some time as a result of
the changes that have occurred.
Therefore, I do not accept that. What is important as we proceed to
review is that we all participate in that review, that all of us attend the
awareness raising sessions for members, and that we all take part in the
consultation period, and I believe that this is essentially important. Therefore, I do not accept that anyone was
mislead. There was comprehensive documentation in 2017 and it was absolutely
clear what the guidance was regarding the review and monitoring system.
Therefore, I cannot speak on behalf of people who, maybe, had not read the
documents in full at the time, but certainly, I share the frustration regarding
the system, but this is the system and I hope that all of us will participate
in the process."