Agenda item

To consider the Audit Wales work programme for Quarter 1 and reports published recently

To accept the report.

Submitted – the joint report of the Council's Business Support Service Manager and the Lead Auditor, Audit Wales, attaching Audit Wales' Quarter 1 update on the work of the review bodies (Appendix 1) and a national report on 'Direct Payments for Adult Social Services' (Appendix 2).

Alan Hughes (Audit Wales) was welcomed to the meeting, and he elaborated on the content of the Quarter 1 report.

Members invited questions and observations.  During the discussion, the following matters were raised:-

·         In response to a question, it was confirmed that the final report on the Assurance and Risk Assessment work would be ready in 2023 (page 114 of the agenda).  It was explained that there were 2 elements to the work, namely considering the elements for assurance and the places where the risk existed.  Normally, the work was focused around December / January, before a discussion was held with councils on where the greatest benefit was in order to shape the local plan for the year to come, and it was this shaping that had helped influence the audit plan for this year.  With that, by looking at matters such as Un-arranged Care, Digital and Review of the Effectiveness of Scrutiny that emerged from last year's work, the auditors would go through the procedure of assessing assurance and risk again, and seek to come to a conclusion about where the assurance elements were.  There was also some risk, and the risk could be national, regional or local.  Work would take place throughout the year, looking at the financial situation towards the end of the year when the accounts would be drafted, so that the figures could be taken from them.  This was one of the pieces of work that were currently underway, which was to look at the financial pattern within the Councils.

·         In reference to work that was happening over a more long-term period, it was asked whether there were any interim messages that could assist the committee with its work, instead of waiting until the end of the process.  In response, it was noted that there was a recommendation in the Direct Payments report for Adult Social Care regarding data, and that there was a reference in the last 4 reports prepared by Audit Wales in Gwynedd, to a better use of data.  A report considered the performance report procedure and it included a reference to using data to promote decision-making, etc. as a part of looking at how recommendations derived from external audit, etc., were completed.  Also, there were regular reports which updated the committee on the response to the recommendations.  It was unlikely that the data would move off the radar very soon and it was believed that there was a need to make the best use of it in order to make decisions.

·         In response to a question, it was explained that the Review of the Effectiveness of Scrutiny was a local piece of work, and although it was a subject that also arose in other councils, and that examples of similar work would be available on Audit Wales' website, as it was a subject that was audited from time to time in the councils. 

·         It was asked whether it would be suitable for this committee to see the final report regarding the scrutiny review.  In response, it was explained that this fell into the grey area between what was an audit, risk and governance matter and what was a pure scrutiny matter.  However, this committee had a statutory role to keep an overview of how the Council was run, and it was believed that it was possible to look at how the scrutiny arrangements fell into the governance category, and thus was within the scope of the committee.  It was also emphasised that the role of this committee would be to satisfy itself that the Council had appropriate arrangements in place to respond to the main messages and recommendations, instead of scrutinising the report.

Then, Alan Hughes (Audit Wales) set-out the context to the 'Direct Payments for Adult Social Care' report, and the Senior Business Manager elaborated further on the content of the report.

Members invited questions and observations.  During the discussion, the following matters were raised:-

·         With reference to page 158 of the agenda, where the indicator 4 table compared years 2016/17 with 2018/19, it was noticed that Gwynedd was one of the five authorities that had seen the greatest reduction in the percentage of people who received direct payments.  It was asked how this compared with the years since then, and it was also asked whether social workers were doing enough to draw people's attention to the provision.  In response, it was noted that the numbers had remained relatively stable over the Covid period, in particular, it seems, as people felt that this was not something extra that they would wish to take on during the period.  However, there was a need to keep track of the figures, and grow the service over the coming years.  It was explained that many councils had internalised the team that managed direct payments, and over the coming months, this Council would look at different options, such as internalising the service or passing on the service to an external commissioner.  In terms of the point regarding social workers, it was noted that this varied and depended on the confidence of the social worker in promoting the payments as an option.  It was also noted that one of the service's priorities over the next weeks would be to provide information and training to social workers so that they were completely confident in terms of promoting the provision as an option, and being able to respond to any questions or concerns.  It was also suggested that the confidence of the social workers could be increased by giving them an opportunity to see how other teams operated, e.g. teams from Anglesey that worked from Ysbyty Gwynedd.

·         Reference was made to the key facts on page 133 of the agenda, which noted that the proportion of adults receiving social care services via Direct Payments in 2018-19 varied from 1.6% (137) in Gwynedd to 12.9% (336) in Ceredigion, and it was asked whether the figure had changed substantially by now.  In response, it was noted that Gwynedd had 198 individuals receiving the payments by now, including individuals and children.  With that, the figure had increased since 2018/19, but not as much as had been hoped.

·         It was asked whether the patients who received direct payments found it difficult to find people to care for them, and whether this was the reason why the numbers were low in Gwynedd.  In response, it was confirmed that this was a problem at the moment.  It was noted, in other counties, that individuals worked for companies or for the local council, and then worked for individuals who received direct payments during the night.  There was a need to look in more detail at this option, but indeed, the lack of assistants was a problem at the moment, and was likely to put people off if they were looking into the possibility of direct payments, but were unable to find anyone to care for them.  An attempt was made to get the company that was commissioned by the Council to keep a register of available assistants, so that individuals were able to obtain information about who could assist them.  It was also noted, since it was not mandatory for those employed to be registered, that individuals could employ a friend or neighbour, and this sometimes offered an answer when it was difficult to find a care company to provide the service.

·         It was suggested by a member that this chiselled at the welfare state, by placing responsibility on the individual, rather than on organisations.

·         It was asked to what extent did direct payments allow to increase the salary scale (namely £12.62 per hour) for personal assistants, as there was a lack of workers in the field in the county and beyond.  In response, it was noted that Gwynedd paid one of the highest rates in Wales when the data was collected, but it was obvious that the current unit cost needed to be revisited since one of the main barriers to finding a carer was the salary scale.

·         In response to a question regarding the possibility of individuals starting care micro-enterprises locally, it was noted that the Council was working with a company called Community Catalysts at this point in time.  The company's intention was to establish these micro-enterprises, and this had highlighted the need to revisit the pay scale, rather than the person receiving the direct payments commenting that the pay levels were low.  Therefore, if revisiting the rate, it would have to be revisited for all, and not just for those who were coming in through new work only.

The Chair thanked Alan Hughes (Audit Wales) and the Senior Business Manager for presenting the report.  It was noted that the field was more complex that the report on paper could convey, and suggested that the committee encouraged the officers to press on with the work programme.

Alan Hughes (Audit Wales) noted that direct payments was a field to promote and he encouraged everyone to read Section 4 of the report, which provided a taster of the type of support that direct payments could provide in order to improve people's well-being.

RESOLVED to accept the report.