Agenda item

Cabinet Member – Councillor Beca Brown

 

To consider a report on the above.

 

To accept the report and to note the observations and ask the Education Department to provide language medium data on provision in the secondary schools to the members of the committee.

 

The Cabinet Member for Education and officers from the Education Department were welcomed to the meeting.

 

Submitted – the report of the Cabinet Member for Education detailing the action plans in response to the recommendations of the Category 3 Secondary Schools Scrutiny Investigation report.

 

The Cabinet Member set out the context noting that:-

·         She wished to thank the members of the Investigation for their work on the report and for bringing the recommendations forward.

·         Meirion Prys Jones was commissioned to collaborate with the Department to revisit the Gwynedd Language Policy and national changes would also drive this field, such as the effort towards a million speakers, the new curriculum, the new categorisation arrangement, and whether that would become statutory or not, and also The Welsh Language Bill, which still needed to complete its journey through the Senedd.

·         She had complete faith in Meirion Prys Jones and his desire to convene a wide range of stakeholders to feed into the work, and wished to see the scrutinisers putting their ideas into the mix when the opportunity came.

·         Important work needed to be done surrounding bilingualism, bilingual learning and our expectations of that learning in Gwynedd. That would, in its turn, make our standpoint as a county, very clear to parents, and hopefully addressed what was noted in Recommendation 5.

·         There had been a lot of good collaboration with Gwynedd Language Initiative, Say Something in Welsh, Coleg Cymraeg and individuals such as Anni Llŷn and Tara Bandito to create community events and also in schools.

·         Progress in two specific fields had been difficult for the time being, namely the recommendations that dealt specifically with GwE, because the supporting schools landscape was being re-imagined, and the transitional schools, due to the challenging and unprecedented situation that had been, and continued, in one transitional school.

 

The Chair of the Investigation, Councillor Paul Rowlinson, thanked the Cabinet Member for her response to each of the Investigation's recommendation, noting some observations, as follows:-

 

Recommendation 1 - It was important that schools' language medium data was reconciled and checked when the Department was in a situation to do so as there was uncertainty at the moment whether it was collected on a regular basis between the different schools.

 

Recommendation 2 - It was very important to implement this recommendation when the new Education Language Policy was operational and they looked forward to seeing the outcome of Meirion Prys Jones' work on this. Everyone knew that Gwynedd was the foremost county in terms of Welsh-medium education, but because there was always a risk of being self-satisfied and of slipping back, it was important that this was implemented.

 

Recommendation 3 - They wished to thank the Department for writing to the WJEC and it was enquired whether any responses had been received to their letter.

 

Recommendation 4 - This was the key recommendation, and the Department was thanked for commissioning Meirion Prys Jones to collaborate with them.

 

Recommendation 5 - It was accepted that schools' arrangements must be followed, but it was believed that the schools were asking for more support from the Department, and the Cabinet Member's response satisfied the recommendation.

 

Recommendation 7 - The response referred to many ways of promoting the advantages of studying through the medium of Welsh, but that these events must continue regularly.

 

Recommendation 9 - The Cabinet Member's response satisfied the recommendation, but the recommendation also referred to providing support to classroom teachers, as well as staff in the immersion centres, on how to present the curriculum to latecomers that could not speak Welsh or English.

 

In response to some of the observations from the Chair of the Investigation, it was noted:-

 

Recommendations 1 and 2:-

·         As a result to the Council's current Language Policy and the schools' bilingual curriculum, that some things were not black and white, and the schools were required to interpret them, such as the number of pupils studying five GCSE subjects completely through the medium of Welsh. 

·         The data was provided by the individual schools, and not the Department, and a headteacher confirmed the accuracy of the data.

·         It was possible that the sentence 'The Department is not currently in a situation to be able to check the situation’ suggested that there had not been any action, but the Department had discussed with the headteachers and had tried to reconcile and standardise the data. It was confirmed by the Department that the data was current for each school across a large number of indicators.

·         In terms of setting targets, there was no intention to be self-satisfied at all, but as the Education Language Policy was being amended, there were many targets that could be set.

 

Recommendation 3 - a response had not been received by WJEC to date and the Department would go back to them following this meeting, reiterating that the committee members were also expecting to hear the response.

 

Members were then given an opportunity to ask questions and submit observations. 

 

Referring to recommendation 1, it was noted that the difficulties were understood, but it was asked how the Department intended to check the provision's data. In response, it was noted that:-

·         It was a difficult question to answer without a robust and clear policy in place.

·         The Department trusted the schools to report on the medium of the provision, and to get that correct. It was not believed that the Department needed to release an officer to go and check the accuracy of the data and the honesty of our schools' leaders.

·         Clear guidelines were required that set the expectations for everyone so that it would be possible for the governing bodies to hold them to account in accordance with the correct governance arrangements that were meant to be in a school.

·         A step was taken back to take forward steps to bring people with us and to listen to stakeholders' concerns regarding the opportunities, and also the challenges, that came as a result of the Education Language Policy.

 

The opinion was expressed that checking the data was an important element of Recommendation 1, and it was suggested that this should be done for at least one or two years to ensure that each school interpreted the data in the same way and that everyone was on the same path. In response, it was noted that:-

·         If it was seen that any data presented by a school was inconsistent with the curricular data that the Department had about that school, the officers would chase that immediately.

·         The headings in the spreadsheet in terms of the data collected was quite robust from schools, such as the number of year 10 pupils in two different fields studying three or more subjects through the medium of Welsh, or how many sat Welsh first language etc.

·         The Department had good knowledge of the schools through the curricular groups etc. and the data from the schools was robust and powerful.

·         The element added as a result of the categorisation arrangement, and was not an act as yet, was the number of children that reached the 70% threshold. Good knowledge of all schools was required to fully check that, and the headteacher of each individual school knew this.

 

The member who asked the question stated that they were not happy with the answer. 

 

Referring to Recommendation 16, it was noted that the work with the Association for Schools in favour of Welsh Medium Education (CYDAG) had clearly been a good thing, but it was asked what connection had there been with the Welsh Government regarding the lack of study resources through the medium of Welsh, not only for Gwynedd, but also for other counties in Wales, and what did they have in mind to ensure improvement. In response, it was noted that:-

·         The report explained what was in place, including Adnodd company's commitment to provide the best possible resources to the curriculum bilingually and to ensure that those materials were released in Welsh and English at the same time.

·         There was a challenge in having resources that arose on a daily basis, such as the news of the day etc. bilingually, but the formal, official resources that came from the Welsh Government were bilingual.

·         Everything on the Welsh Government's HWB platform was bilingual and the Government had also established the Adnodd company to commission standard resources to support the Curriculum.

 

It was noted, although action on Recommendations 2 and 6 could be slowed down because the Welsh Language Bill would not be submitted to the Senedd until May, this should not prevent any steps from happening at all. In response, it was noted that:-

·         Recommendation 2 referred to setting specific targets, but if there was not anything specific in a policy that set the target, it was not possible to measure it and schools were asked to increase and empower the data when moving forward.

·         Recommendation 6 involved both Category 3T schools in Gwynedd, and although there had been consistent work with Ysgol Tywyn, it was not currently possible to challenge Ysgol Friars to the same extent as that school faced an exceptional challenge this year.

·         A responsible specific plan was required to move Bangor forward in the appropriate way, but it would take time to fulfil this.

 

It was enquired what exactly would be Meirion Prys Jones' role and what was the work's timetable. In response, it was noted that:-

·         It was intended to host specific sessions with different cohorts of people over a period to get their opinion regarding the current situation and the direction they wished to move towards.

·         The Department was currently working on a timetable with Meirion Prys Jones, looking at the most reasonable use of his time and where to host the events.

·         There was an intention to try and host some events at the end of the Summer Term to be able to move forward and build on the work that would have happened during the Autumn Term. 

·         A definite timetable would be shared with the members in due course.

 

It was noted that the members would appreciate seeing the timetable, as well as any information regarding the events.

 

Reference was made to the observations in the response to Recommendation 1 that paid attention to the Welsh language and the schools' ethos in each visit hosted for schools, and it was enquired whether this arrangement had been formalised, whether that was by the Authority or GwE. In response, it was noted that the Welsh aspects should possibly be a specific point on the agenda of each school visit.

 

By accepting that the Department had decided not to act on Recommendation 2 until the new Education Language Policy for Gwynedd had been drawn up, it was asked whether there was an intention to look at interim targets. In response, it was noted that there was no intention to do this currently and the intention would be to continue with the situation as it was during the consultation period, and to empower the targets following that. That would also give an opportunity for other things that were on the horizon, such as the Welsh Language Bill, to work its way through the Senedd.

 

Referring to Recommendation 12, it was noted that the plan to provide Welsh lessons for teachers was praiseworthy, but it was enquired whether it was possible to do more to promote the offer, instead of providing application forms for schools only. In response, it was noted that this was a fair point, but that people needed to wish to scrutinise the language and do so voluntarily. However, it could be discussed further and see to what extent people could be encouraged to be a part of the plan, instead of leaving it to chance, as the sentence in the report highlighted.

 

It was noted that:-

·         The format of the report was welcomed that included brief observations opposite each recommendation.

·         They wished to congratulate the Department on commissioning Meirion Prys Jones, who was a very experienced language acquisition specialist, and that the scrutinisers looked forward to collaborating with him.

·         A member had previously noted dissatisfaction with the officer's response to their observation regarding Recommendation 1, and it was emphasised that schools' language medium data needed to be authenticated, reconciled and corrected for today, and not to wait until the new Education Language Policy was in place.

·         ⁠It was said in the Council meeting on 6 July 2023 “From looking at the whole-school figures across the county, in line with the definition of the categorisation system, over 70% of the secondary children in Gwynedd undertake at least 70% of their curricular and extra-curricular school activities through the medium of Welsh. Without the two transitional schools, the 3T ones, over 90% of Gwynedd secondary children undertake at least 70% of their curricular and extra-curricular school activities in Welsh”. However, it was doubted whether that was true.

·         The response to Recommendation 1 noted that the Department already collected language medium data for secondary schools annually and the data for the current year had been collected and collated, and it was asked to see this data before the next meeting of this committee, including not only the activities, but also the lessons and the subjects through the medium of Welsh throughout the county.

 

In response, it was noted that the officers would share the data with the scrutinisers following this meeting, as long as the schools were comfortable with that.

 

It was noted that:-

·         Members welcomed the data and it was demanded that it was checked in some way or another. Without reliable data, targets could not be set, and waiting for the advent of the new Language Policy would mean that a whole year of data and an opportunity for people to move forward would have been lost.

·         There was concern that the new Language Policy was used as some sort of excuse to delay and not do anything.

·         There was concern having understood that departmental capacity to monitor detailed individual targets was low, and it was necessary to start planning to secure this capacity.

·         The examples of collaborating with other organisations and Gwynedd Language Initiative that was referred to in the response to Recommendation 11 was rather ad-hoc and a formal programme of activities should be provided as there was immense scope to collaborate for the benefit of the Welsh language.

 

In response, it was noted that:-

·         In terms of capacity, it was a requirement for the Department to revisit its structure as part of the current review of the middle tier under the Welsh Government's guidance. The comment that the Department would look at it whilst moving forward was understood. However, it was believed that the response was a reflection of the current situation in terms of capacity, instead of being a reflection of where we wished to be whilst moving forward and re-structuring the Department.

·         In terms of the discussion regarding the activities, there was a discussion in the Language Forum in terms of one of the outcomes of the WESP (Welsh in Education Strategic Plan) that related to the use of the language socially etc. and enhanced the opportunities. It was very early days in that discussion, but the observation that a structured programme of activities should be planned, instead of leaving it to chance, was quite a fair one. This was the type of thing discussed in the Language Forum anyway, and although assurance could not be given that an activity programme would be available immediately, it was hoped to build on that from this point forward.

 

It was suggested that a third column should be included in the report noting the next steps. It was agreed to do this.

 

A member noted that he had faith in the data presented by the schools and he was happy with the answers given by the officers.

 

It was noted that:-

·         In terms of Recommendation 11, that related to opportunities to socialise through the medium of Welsh, it was important to offer these types of opportunities to young people outside the education system and the changes in the Department's structure would put the service in a good place to undertake that work.

·         Perhaps Recommendation 11 should be looked at in more detail by drawing up the work programme of this committee.

·         In terms of capacity, the need to try and allocate more resources to check the data was questioned, when there was no need to check it anyway, and that might be at the expense of other work, such as increasing the provision of social activities for young people through the medium of Welsh.

·         By having a robust and clear policy, there would be less need to check the data, and by allocating our schools in Gwynedd as Welsh schools as far as possible, there would be less need for monitoring, as Estyn would do the work for us.

·         Recommendation 4 referred to re-visiting Gwynedd Education Language Policy as a result of national changes in the field, but it was not those policy changes that caused concern, but the language shift that was happening in society.

·         Recommendation 7 should be completely removed if there was no need to promote the benefit of studying through the medium of Welsh when there was a robust policy in place.

·         Recommendation 8 was only relevant to young people who were going to university, and therefore to a large extent, was irrelevant with a view on the language policy as there was not a language shift amongst the high middle class. The language shift in Gwynedd happened amongst children on a level lower on the social hierarchy, as the statistics from the Census indicated that there were twice as many children from working class Welsh homes that could not speak Welsh compared with children from middle class Welsh homes. Therefore, this recommendation referred to providing resources where they were not needed.

·         The response to Recommendation 14 referred to including headteachers in the process 'whilst' reviewing the Language Policy, but was their role not to implement the policy, instead of drawing up the policy?

·         In terms of Recommendation 16, it was not believed that the medium of the study resources was neither here nor there and our focus should be on the oral medium of learning.

·         In terms of Recommendation 11, that the collaboration to increase the provision of Welsh-medium social activities for young people was to be welcomed.

 

In response to some of the observations, it was noted that:-

·         The challenge in terms of scrutinising the language and the use of the language within schools was a genuine challenge that schools faced every day.  It was agreed that the language shift should be included in the response to Recommendation 4, whilst also giving attention to it as the work with Meirion Prys Jones moved forward.

·         In terms of Recommendation 14, there needed to be discussions with the schools and bring them along with us on the journey whilst ensuring that they understood what drove the change and what guidance was given by the Authority to the work.

·         The headteachers were important stakeholders and it was considered that it would be unwise not to include them in the process of drawing up a policy as they understood the challenges in the schools.

·         It was agreed that the use of the language in the classroom was much more important than written resources, although those study resources were also extremely important.

 

The Chair of the Investigation was invited to submit closing observations. It was noted that:-

·         Emphasis was given in the report to resources because the school pupils reported that the lack of resources was one of the reasons why they, or their friends, chose the medium of English.

·         He wished to thank the committee for their observations, that gave more material to the Cabinet Member and the officers to consider when moving forward, and they looked forward to seeing the new Education Language Policy.

·         One of the key matters that arose during the Investigation was that the definitions of Welsh language education was a barrier to the schools, and the need to act on this without delay, without waiting for the outcome of Meirion Prys Jones' work was emphasised.

·         The members of the Investigation did not doubt the professionalism and honesty of the staff collecting the language medium data, but they believed that inconsistent interpretations between different schools suggested that the data was not completely reliable.

 

RESOLVED to accept the report and to note the observations and ask the Education Department to provide language medium data provision from the secondary schools to committee members.