Agenda, decisions and minutes

To receive any apologies for absence

Councillors Stephen Churchman, Lesley Day, Gweno Glyn, Louise Hughes, Anne Lloyd Jones, Brian Jones, Eric Merfyn Jones, Beth Lawton, June E. Marshall, Dafydd Meurig, Linda Morgan, W. Roy Owen, Nigel Pickavance, Peter Read and Mike Stevens.

The Chairman shall propose that the minutes of the previous meeting of the Council held on 9 July, 2015 be signed as a true record. (attached)

The Chairman signed the minutes of the previous meeting of the Council held on 9 July 2015 as a true record.

To receive any declaration of personal interest.

Councillor Aeron Jones declared a personal interest in item 12 on the agenda - Urgent Decision Notice by a Cabinet Member - as he was the manager of a company in Caernarfon that could benefit from the proposal in question.

The member was of the opinion that it was a prejudicial interest and he withdrew from the meeting during the discussion on the item.

The following members declared a personal interest in item 13(B) on the agenda – Notice of Motion from Councillor Ioan Thomas, for the reasons noted:-

·        Councillor W. Tudor Owen – as he was the Chairman of the Gisda Board.

·        Councillor Siân Gwenllian – as she was a member of the Gisda Management Board.

·        Councillor Gwen Griffith – as she was the Chair of Mantell Gwynedd.

·        Councillor Linda Wyn Jones – as she was a member of the Seren company.

The members were of the opinion that they were prejudicial interests, and they withdrew from the meeting during the discussions on those items.

To receive any Chairman’s announcements.

(1)     Condolences

Reference was made to the sudden death of Councillor Bob Wright who had represented the Pwllheli (South) Ward on this Council since 2008, and previously the Dwyfor District Council for many years prior to the re-organisation of local government in 1996. The Chairman read out a tribute to him which had been prepared by Councillor Peter Read, and condolences were extended to the family in their loss.

Condolences were also extended to the family of 20 year old Robin Llyr Evans from Llanbedrog who had died following a horrific accident in China.

It was noted that the Council also wished to express condolences to everyone within the county’s communities who had lost loved ones recently.

The Council stood as a mark of respect.

(2)     Speedy Recovery

          A speedy recovery was wished to Councillor Linda Morgan who was currently receiving treatment and also to Councillors Peter Read and Louise Hughes following recent ill-health.

(3)     Best Wishes

          Best wishes were extended to former councillors Eddie Dogan and Llywarch Bowen Jones who had had to give up their work as councillors due to ill-health.

          Eddie Dogan had served local government for over forty years starting with the former Gwyrfai Council and he then had become a member of the Arfon Borough Council before being elected to represent the Dewi Ward on this Council in 1996. He had also been a member of Bangor City Council for 43 years. Llywarch Bowen Jones had been elected to represent the Llanaelhaearn Ward in 2012 and he had also been a valuable member of this Council.

          It was noted that they would be sorely missed and that the Council would send its best wishes, along with its gratitude, to both.

          It was noted that plans were in place to hold the Dewi and Llanaelhaearn by-elections on 19 November and the Pwllheli (South) by-election on 26 November.

          Councillor Roy Owen and his family were also wished well following recent events and it was also noted that everyone’s thoughts were with Councillor Eric Merfyn Jones and his family.

(4)     Welcome

          Councillor Sian Hughes, the new member for the Morfa Nefyn Ward, was welcomed to her first meeting of the Council.

(5)     Congratulations

          Elfyn Evans was congratulated on securing the best ever result for a Welshman in the World Rallying Championship. Elfyn Evans managed to be the runner-up in the Tour de Corse, namely the French round of the FIA World Rally Championship this year and he was wished every success in the Wales Rally GB on 12-15 November.

          The National Team was congratulated for doing so well in the Rugby World Cup competition and they were wished well in their match against Australia the following Saturday. The National Football Team was also wished well in the Euro 2016 qualifying rounds in a key match against Bosnia-Herzegovina on the following Saturday night and it was noted that the Council took  ...  view the full minutes text for item 4.

To receive any correspondence, communications or other business brought forward at the request of the Chairman.

To note any items which are urgent business in the opinion of the Chairman so they may be considered.

To consider any questions the appropriate notice for which have been given under Section 4.19 of the Constitution.

Question from Councillor Sion Jones

“What is the Leader’s view on wasting public money on external consultants?”

Answer from Councillor Dyfed Edwards, Council Leader

(The Leader’s written response had been circulated to members in advance.)

“It is likely that all of us in the Chamber can state that we are not keen to see public money being wasted in any situation. I believe that all of us have work to do to ensure that any public expenditure is undertaken in the most appropriate and efficient manner. As the answer outlines, there is always a need to enquire about and scrutinise the Council’s expenditure and indeed that is the work of the scrutiny committees and the Audit Committee and the Audit Committee has decided to undertake a piece of work to examine expenditure on external consultants and that report will be available for members in due course. I do not anticipate what the outcome of that work will be but I have said that there is a need for us to commission work from external bodies and external agencies to assist us in the process. The examples I think about are those where the Council seeks to create change. Clearly, we must have an independent person to be involved in that work and we should not support both sides of the argument at the same time. That is not possible. The presence of independent people in the situation is required to ensure fairness for everyone and of course expenditure is associated with that.  Let us see what results are achieved by the working group that is looking at this.”

A supplementary question by Councillor Sion Jones

“The Leader states in his written response that if the specialist skills or necessary capacity is not available within the Council, that we will be using external consultants. I think that that is quite insulting. We have 7000 members of staff working for Gwynedd Council and I believe that there are fantastic skills in this Council to deal with the work that is required by these external consultants. Is the Leader willing to apologise for wasting public money?”

Answer from Councillor Dyfed Edwards, Council Leader

 “It is not insulting to recognise that we do not always have all the skills. Is this not the reality of the situation? We are not all experts on everything. There are situations where we require specialist support and advice. In that situation, is not ensuring that we receive the appropriate and suitable advice the responsible thing to do? Indeed, unless we do that, we could be challenged. The Wales Audit Office would be after us and there would be situations where we could be challenged. There is also a bit of reality involved, i.e. as we reduce the workforce, we do not have the capacity to do everything. That is impossible. There are  ...  view the full minutes text for item 7.

To submit the report of the Deputy Leader (attached).

          The Leader submitted a report which recommended that the Council approved the document as a balanced, fair and accurate reflection of the Council’s performance during 2014/15, and to adopt the report.

          The Leader thanked the officers who had been involved with the work.

          RESOLVED to approve the report as a balanced, fair and accurate reflection of the Council’s performance in 2014/15, and to adopt the report.

To submit:-

(a)        The Annual Reports of the three Scrutiny Committees for 2014/15  (attached).

(b)        The Work Programme for the three Scrutiny Committees for 2015/16  (attached).

The annual reports of the three scrutiny committees for 2014/15 were submitted together with their work programmes for 2015/16.

Corporate Scrutiny Committee

The Chairman of the Corporate Scrutiny Committee, Councillor Dyfrig Jones provided details on the terms of reference and work of the committee during 2014/15, and he thanked the Vice-chair, Councillor Jason Humphreys, members of the committee and officers for their support.

Services Scrutiny Committee

In the absence of the Chairman and Vice-chair of the Services Scrutiny Committee, Councillor Alwyn Gruffydd provided details on the terms of reference and work of the committee during 2014/15, and he thanked the Chairman, Councillor Peter Read, the Vice-chair, Councillor Beth Lawton, members of the committee and officers for their support.

During the discussion the following matters were raised:-

·        Reference was made to the very heavy workload of the Services Scrutiny Committee and the need to review the Constitution was noted so that the three scrutiny committees shared the work fairer. The Chairman of the Corporate Scrutiny Committee noted that the current system was based on a model that had been forced on the Council following the last election and that the Corporate Scrutiny Committee would support the attempt to ensure a better balance between the workloads of the different scrutiny committees.

·        It was enquired whether the Leader and Cabinet were paying enough attention to the recommendations of the scrutiny committees?  It was suggested that the member should raise the point directly with the Leader and the Cabinet.   It was further noted that the scrutiny committee had not been informed of how many times the Cabinet had accepted / refused their recommendations.

·        The Vanguard project in Ysbyty Alltwen was praised and a wish was expressed to see Morwena Edwards, Corporate Director, drawing up a report to inform the people of Gwynedd of the pilot’s success.

·        It was noted that the scrutiny committee had asked on numerous occasions how much money was being spent on consultants, but it had not received a response.

Communities Scrutiny Committee

The Chair of the Communities Scrutiny Committee, Councillor Angela Russell, provided details on the terms of reference and work of the committee during 2014/15, and she thanked the Vice-chairs during the year, Councillors Mandy Williams-Davies and Caerwyn Roberts, members of the committee and officers for their support.

The Leader thanked the chairs, vice-chairs and members of the three scrutiny committees for all their work and noted that the report clearly highlighted what topics had been scrutinised, what had been the purpose of the scrutiny and what had happened to the resulting recommendations.

To submit the report of the Chairman of the Standards Committee (attached).

Dr Einir Young, Chair of the Standards Committee was welcomed to the Council to submit the annual report of the Standards Committee for 2014/15.

Dr Einir Young provided details about the main purpose of the committee of promoting and maintaining high standards of conduct by the councillors and co-opted members of Gwynedd Council and Gwynedd community and town councils and referred to the membership of the committee and the work that it had achieved during 2014/15. She thanked Gwilym Ellis Evans, who had been the Chairman of the committee for 10 years, for his diligent work and commitment and also Sam Soysa, who had been a Vice-chairman, before his time on the committee came to an end.  She also thanked the Monitoring Officer and other officers who had supported the committee.

Dr Einir Young was thanked for submitting the report.

To submit the consultative document and the draft observations of the Democratic Services Committee for consideration by full Council (attached).

Councillor Tom Ellis, Chairman of the Democratic Services Committee, submitted a report by the Head of Democratic Services which noted that as part of its programme of local government reform, that the Welsh Government would require the Local Democracy and Boundary Commission Wales to conduct reviews of electoral arrangements for proposed new local authority areas. The Council was asked to consider the recommendations of the Democratic Services Committee together with the committee’s view on the changes proposed for the 2017 elections.

A member expressed a lack of confidence in the whole process on the grounds that bribing councillors with an additional year without any mandate and on full pay indicated how low the process had sunk.

RESOLVED

(a)       To submit the observations on the contents of the Draft Directions to the Boundary Commission that have been summarised in Appendix A of these minutes.

(b)     To write to the Welsh Government to state the view that it would be inappropriate to implement the proposed changes for the 2017 elections with such a fundamental change in the boundaries to follow so soon with the reorganisation.

To submit the report of the Cabinet Member Economy (attached).

The Cabinet Member for Economy submitted a report for information noting that a Cabinet Member Decision Notice had been submitted regarding the Proposed Bangor and Caernarfon Business Improvement District (BID) - Gwynedd Council voted that it was an urgent decision in accordance with section 7.25.2 of the Constitution so that the call-in procedure would not apply in this case to ensure that the Council could submit votes before the closing date. She noted that this procedure allowed for a decision to be made with the agreement of the Chair of the Council but it would be required to report on that to the next meeting of the Council.  Agreement from the Chair of the Council had been received in that the decision was an urgent matter and that the proposed decision was reasonable under the circumstances.

During the discussion:-

·        The fact that a scheme was in place was welcomed and the Cabinet Member was thanked for her work.

·        It was noted that the central Government in England had decided that local councils in England would get to keep all of the business rate for it to be invested locally and a suggestion was made that the Welsh Government should be contacted to ask for the same conditions to be introduced in Wales. The Chief Executive responded that a scrutiny committee would have to look at this first in order to see whether or not such a system in Wales would lead to benefits for Gwynedd.

RESOLVED to note the report for information.

(A)       In accordance with the Notice of Motion received under Section 4.20 of the Constitution, Councillor Elin Walker Jones will propose as follows:-

“I call upon my fellow councillors to support a request to write to John Penrose, MP to request a change in the legislation to allow us who wish to be identified as Welsh rather than British, to be identified as such on the Electoral Roll, passports and any other relevant official documentation.

Recently, an Electoral Enquiry Form was sent to every home in Gwynedd. One of the things registered on the Form is nationality; however, a Welsh person does not have the right to register as Welsh. The Form is sent by our Council to every home in Gwynedd, and although the Council is responsible for administrating the Electoral Roll in Gwynedd, it is a system which implements a statutory procedure to hold elections. The system must be followed in order to maintain the electoral roll in order to ensure that the citizens of Gwynedd have the right to vote.

Gwynedd is not responsible for the system. Welsh Government is not responsible for the system. In order to change the system, we must contact John Penrose, MP, the Government whip, the Lords Commissioner from Her Majesty’s Treasury and Parliamentary Secretary (Minister for Constitutional Reform). Contact John Penrose in order to change the law in Westminster.

I call upon my fellow councillors to support the right of Welsh people to call themselves Welsh. I call upon my fellow councillors to express support in order for us, as Gwynedd Council, to write to John Penrose to change the legislation.”

(B)       In accordance with the Notice of Motion received under Section 4.20 of the Constitution, Councillor Ioan Thomas will propose as follows:-

“That Gwynedd Council:-

(1)     Recognises and supports the good work that Gwynedd has done in terms of providing a range of accommodation and/or support services for vulnerable people to help them to retain or regain their place in the community in Gwynedd.

(2)     Supports the continuation of the Supporting People preventative programme funded by Welsh Government to assist and support vulnerable people and people on the periphery to live independently and with dignity in their communities by providing support with housing and Council services.

(3)     Calls upon Welsh Government to protect the Supporting People grant, rather than reduce it further.

(4)     Supports a joint campaign between Cymorth Cymru and Community Housing Cymru “Let’s Keep on Supporting People”, to protect the Supporting People grant.

(5)     Invites the Welsh Assembly Regional and Constituency Members to support this proposal.”

(C)       To submit, for information, a letter from Alun Cairns MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales in response to Councillor Wyn Williams’ Notice of Motion to the previous meeting regarding devolving the powers of the Crown Estate  (attached).

(a)     The following notice of motion was submitted by Councillor Elin Walker Jones, in accordance with Section 4.20 of the Constitution and it was seconded.

“I call upon my fellow councillors to support a request to write to John Penrose, MP to request a change in the legislation to allow us who wish to be identified as Welsh rather than British, to be identified as such on the Electoral Roll, passports and any other relevant official documentation.

Recently, an Electoral Enquiry Form was sent to every home in Gwynedd. One of the things registered on the Form is nationality; however, a Welsh person does not have the right to register as Welsh. The Form is sent by our Council to every home in Gwynedd, and although the Council is responsible for administrating the Electoral Roll in Gwynedd, it is a system which implements a statutory procedure to hold elections. The system must be followed in order to maintain the electoral roll in order to ensure that the citizens of Gwynedd have the right to vote.

Gwynedd is not responsible for the system. Welsh Government is not responsible for the system. In order to change the system, we must contact John Penrose, MP, the Government whip, the Lords Commissioner from Her Majesty’s Treasury and Parliamentary Secretary (Minister for Constitutional Reform).

I call upon my fellow councillors to support the right of Welsh people to call themselves Welsh. I call upon my fellow councillors to express support in order for us, as Gwynedd Council, to write to John Penrose to change the legislation.”

          The motion was supported.

RESOLVED to accept the motion.

(b)     The following notice of motion was submitted by Councillor Ioan Thomas, in accordance with Section 4.20 of the Constitution and it was seconded.

“That Gwynedd Council:-

(1) Recognises and supports the good work that Gwynedd has done in terms of providing a range of accommodation and/or support services for vulnerable people to help them to retain or regain their place in thecommunity in Gwynedd.

(2) Supports the continuation of the Supporting People preventative programme funded by Welsh Government to assist and support vulnerable people and people on the periphery to live independently and with dignity in their communities by providing support with     housing and Council services.

(3) Calls upon Welsh Government to protect the Supporting People grant, rather than reduce it further.

(4) Supports a joint campaign between Cymorth Cymru and Community Housing Cymru “Let’s Keep on Supporting People”, to protect the Supporting People grant.

(5) Invites the Welsh Assembly Regional and Constituency Members to   support this proposal.”

          The motion was supported.

RESOLVED to accept the motion.

(c)     Submitted, for information, a letter from Alun Cairns, MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales, in response to Councillor Wyn Williams’s notice of motion to the previous meeting regarding devolving the powers of the Crown Estate.

RESOLVED to note the letter with disappointment.