Agenda, decisions and minutes

To receive apologies for absence.

Apologies were received from Councillor Jina Gwyrfai.

To receive any declaration of personal interest.

Councillor Rob Triggs asked whether he should declare a personal interest in item 5 - Statement of Accounts 2021-22, because he received a Fire Service pension, and that there was a reference in the report to pension funds.  In response, the Head of Finance noted that this was not an interest that affected the budget in terms of the member's ability to participate in the discussion.

To note any items which are urgent business in the opinion of the Chairman so they may be considered.

In reference to the Prime Minister's intention to make an announcement later that day regarding her plans to address the huge increases in fuel costs, a member asked whether there would be an opportunity for this committee to discuss the matter at a future meeting.  It was suggested that this was a matter to raise under item 7 - the Committee’s Forward Programme

The Chairman shall propose that the minutes of the meeting of this committee, held on 30^th June 2022, be signed as a true record.

The Chair accepted the minutes of the previous meeting of this committee, held on 30 June 2022, as a true record.

To consider and receive the Statutory Statement of Accounts (pre-audit draft) for information

To accept and note the 2021/22 Statement of the Council’s Accounts (subject to audit).

Submitted - the report of the Head of Finance, submitting the statutory Statement of Accounts (pre-audit draft) for the 2021/22 financial year.  It was noted that:-

·         The draft accounts were currently being audited, and that the final version would be submitted following the audit, for approval at this committee's meeting on 17 November 2022. 

·         That there was no statutory requirement for elected members to approve the draft version of the Statement of Accounts.  Nevertheless, it was considered that submitting the draft statement to this committee for information was good practice, and was an opportunity for members to ask the financial officers about the content and equip themselves with relevant information in order to consider the relevant risks and other matters that will be subject to audit, within context.

The Cabinet Member for Finance gave members an update on their responsibilities, as well as an outline of where we had reached along the journey.  The Senior Finance Manager then expanded upon the content of the report.

The Chair thanked the Department for the detailed work, and invited questions and observations from members.  During the discussion, the following matters were raised:-

·         The Cabinet Member and Senior Finance Manager were thanked for providing very clear presentations, which drew attention to a number of very important matters in a comprehensible way.

·         Referring to the need to valuate more property as a result of the fact that inflation was so high, it was asked whether there were any changes in terms of valuating highway assets, and whether this was likely to create any delay in terms of auditing the accounts.  In response, it was noted that highways appeared under 'infrastructure' in Note 15 of the Accounts (Property, Tools and Equipment).  It was explained that highways were not being re-valuated, and that they were in on their historical cost.  If the Council did a piece of work on any road, it went in on at cost, and was valuated in accordance with the policy in Note 1 of the Accounts over 40 years.  It was noted further that work was afoot in England to change the system as this 'possibly' did not reflect the value of the road, and one of the proposals under consideration was that the net figure was only included, instead of the detailed analysis as in Note 15.  Also, there may be other options, but this was not an easy matter since the information held by councils about the expenditure incurred on roads was based on historical cost alone, since a valuation had never been carried out on them.  Furthermore, it was asked whether this would affect this year's audit of this Council's Accounts.  In response, it was noted that it could have an impact, but that the discussions were continuing.

·         It was asked whether the more detailed valuating was going to be a pattern for the future.  In response, it was explained that the high levels of inflation had affected this, and whilst inflation levels remained high, it was likely that  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

To consider the Audit Wales work programme for Quarter 1 and reports published recently

To accept the report.

Submitted – the joint report of the Council's Business Support Service Manager and the Lead Auditor, Audit Wales, attaching Audit Wales' Quarter 1 update on the work of the review bodies (Appendix 1) and a national report on 'Direct Payments for Adult Social Services' (Appendix 2).

Alan Hughes (Audit Wales) was welcomed to the meeting, and he elaborated on the content of the Quarter 1 report.

Members invited questions and observations.  During the discussion, the following matters were raised:-

·         In response to a question, it was confirmed that the final report on the Assurance and Risk Assessment work would be ready in 2023 (page 114 of the agenda).  It was explained that there were 2 elements to the work, namely considering the elements for assurance and the places where the risk existed.  Normally, the work was focused around December / January, before a discussion was held with councils on where the greatest benefit was in order to shape the local plan for the year to come, and it was this shaping that had helped influence the audit plan for this year.  With that, by looking at matters such as Un-arranged Care, Digital and Review of the Effectiveness of Scrutiny that emerged from last year's work, the auditors would go through the procedure of assessing assurance and risk again, and seek to come to a conclusion about where the assurance elements were.  There was also some risk, and the risk could be national, regional or local.  Work would take place throughout the year, looking at the financial situation towards the end of the year when the accounts would be drafted, so that the figures could be taken from them.  This was one of the pieces of work that were currently underway, which was to look at the financial pattern within the Councils.

·         In reference to work that was happening over a more long-term period, it was asked whether there were any interim messages that could assist the committee with its work, instead of waiting until the end of the process.  In response, it was noted that there was a recommendation in the Direct Payments report for Adult Social Care regarding data, and that there was a reference in the last 4 reports prepared by Audit Wales in Gwynedd, to a better use of data.  A report considered the performance report procedure and it included a reference to using data to promote decision-making, etc. as a part of looking at how recommendations derived from external audit, etc., were completed.  Also, there were regular reports which updated the committee on the response to the recommendations.  It was unlikely that the data would move off the radar very soon and it was believed that there was a need to make the best use of it in order to make decisions.

·         In response to a question, it was explained that the Review of the Effectiveness of Scrutiny was a local piece of work, and although it was a subject that also arose in other councils,  ...  view the full minutes text for item 6.

To consider the committee's work programme for 2022/23

To accept the report, noting the observations made during the meeting.

Submitted - the report of the Head of Finance, attaching a draft of the committee's work programme for the year to come, up to February 2023.

The Head of Finance noted:-

·         That although the Controls Improvement Working Group's report was a standing item on the committee's agenda, it would not appear unless a meeting of the working group had been held during the cycle in question.

·         In accordance with the new role of this committee in keeping an overview of the Council's arrangements and how complaints were dealt with, that the officers aimed to submit a scrutiny report to the committee on 17 November.

The Chair asked whether it would be possible for members of the committee to receive training on any unfamiliar fields before they scrutinised reports on those subjects.  In response, it was confirmed that this was possible, and members were asked to inform officers if they wished to receive training on any specific field.

Members invited questions and observations.  During the discussion, the following matters were raised:-

·         A request was made for assurance that the pack on the Budget for the meeting on 9 February included a report on the current situation in relation to the reserves in every field, along with a report on the general balances.  In response, it was confirmed that this committee would receive the same pack as would be submitted to the Cabinet Members to make a recommendation to the full Council.  It was explained that the role of this committee would be to challenge and take an overview and ensure that the pack submitted to the Cabinet included the comprehensive information needed for those members to make their recommendation.  Also, if an element of reserves would need to be used to bridge the financial deficit next year, the pack would outline the risks associated with that.

·         A request was made to include a standing item on the agenda of every meeting of the committee, providing updates on matters raised at previous meetings, as it was not possible to raise matters from the minutes.  In response, it was noted that it was possible to include an item on the agenda of every meeting to provide an update to members on the implementation of decisions, and it was agreed to look into this for the next meeting.

RESOLVED to accept the report, with the observations presented during the discussion.