Agenda, decisions and draft minutes

To elect a Chair for 2025/26.

It was resolved to postpone the appointment until the next meeting.

It was resolved to elect Nigel Rudd as Chair of this meeting.

It was resolved to postpone the appointment until the next meeting.

It was resolved to elect Nigel Rudd as Chair of this meeting.

To elect a Vice-Chair for 2025/26.

It was resolved to postpone the appointment until the next meeting.

It was resolved to postpone the appointment until the next meeting.

To receive any apologies for absence.

Apologies were received from Councillor Carol Holliday (Denbighshire County Council), Carys Edwards (Lay Member), and Sian Pugh (Assistant Head of Finance - Cyngor Gwynedd).

To receive any declaration of Personal Interest.

There were no declarations of personal interest.

To note any items that are a matter of urgency in the view of the Chair for consideration.

The Chief Executive of the Corporate Joint Committee (CJC) welcomed all Members to the first meeting of the North Wales CJC Governance and Audit Sub-committee, and the context of the CJC was presented.

Confirmation was requested as to what was a quorum for this Sub-committee, and it was asked whether it was possible to delegate. The Monitoring Officer explained that this was not possible, as the Terms of Reference had set a high quorum. It was confirmed that one member of each authority and one lay member were present today and consequently that there was a quorum.

The officers were introduced along with their roles to give the background and context to the Sub-committee. 

Claire Incledon, Deputy Monitoring Officer (interim) to present the report.

The report was submitted stating that the Forward Work Plan provided the work programme, which allowed the Sub-committee to fulfil its statutory role as set out in the Establishment Regulations 2021. It was explained that it was a matter for Members and the Chair to set out what reports they wish to see before the Sub-committee and any training requirements they may need. These would be added to the Forward Work Plan, which will be a living document and will be circulated regularly to Members.

It was confirmed that the dates of the CJC meetings for 2025/26 were in the calendar until May 2026. It was noted that a new final calendar would be developed early next year. It was asked whether the dates of the Governance and Audit Sub-committee meetings had been submitted. It was expressed that there was a date in January to consider the Budget before it was presented to the CJC on 23 January.

It was confirmed that the meetings of the Sub-committees would be scheduled around the Forward Work Plan, to allow the work of the Sub-committee to be inputted appropriately into the CJC. It was noted that meeting dates for the end of 2025/26 would be dependent on resource capacity and the requirements of the items that will need to be submitted to the Sub-committee.

The importance of sharing dates in a timely manner for the meetings of the Governance and Audit Sub-committee, given the requirements of their respective authorities, and to secure a quorum was highlighted. It was confirmed that they would be circulated as soon as possible.

Concerns were raised about a shortage of items on the Forward Work Plan, particularly given that the Terms of Reference highlight items that should be included. They responded by explaining that the Forward Plan continues to be developed by working side by side with members to fulfil the statutory responsibilities of this Sub-committee. The need to consider capacity and the resources available to do the work was reiterated.

It was proposed that the decision be postponed until the end of the meeting to provide context before deciding on the priorities of the Sub-committee, and to highlight any additional items to be included on the Forward Work Plan.

There was no quorum at the end of the meeting and therefore no decision was made but the comments were noted for information.

A question was asked regarding the establishment of the Joint Overview and Scrutiny Sub-committee to ensure proper scrutiny of the CJC. It was asked whether the proposed structure needed to be considered. It was confirmed that the terms of reference of the Joint Overview and Scrutiny Sub-committee had already been established and agreed by the six local authorities.

The following list of items, as suggestions for the Forward Work Plan, was reported:

·         Internal Audit / Audit Out Programme (Audit Wales)

·         Audit action tracking report

·         Annual statement of accounts 2024/25 and Audit Wales report

·         Annual Governance Statement 2024/25

·         Risk Register

·         Asset management and capital disposal

·         Treasury  ...  view the full minutes text for item 6.

Claire Incledon, Deputy Monitoring Officer (interim) to present the report.

To note the Terms of Reference.

It was submitted that the terms of reference reflected the role and function of the Sub-committee, and that these were set out in the Establishment Regulations 2021 and in the CJC constitution. A specific statutory function was highlighted to its Members. 

It was elaborated that the Sub-committee will promote good practice. It was noted that statutory and non-statutory guidance supporting the principal Councils was just as relevant to the CJC.

It was recognised that the terms of reference of the Sub-committee were similar to those of local authorities. It was noted that stating a version number on the terms of reference would facilitate any subsequent amendments. It was agreed that any modifications would be clearly identified so that all amendments could be highlighted.

It was asked who the Lead Officer of the Sub-committee was, and the need to highlight this in the Terms of Reference. Clarification was sought on the relationship between the Sub-committee and the CJC, to gain a better understanding of where decisions are made and where reports are formally shared. It was expressed that the Section 151 Officer was the de-facto lead officer for the Council's Governance and Audit Sub-committee in Cyngor Gwynedd, but that further discussion was needed on the appointment of the Lead Officer for this Committee. It was reiterated that Lead Officers are not confirmed in the Constitution or the Terms of Reference in Cyngor Gwynedd.

It was explained that it was important to identify the correct lead officer, to ensure that timely and relevant information was provided about the CJC's work programme in the Sub-committee. Members were reminded that the CJC operates regionally rather than locally, and therefore it was important to recognise the differences between the CJC and local authorities. Furthermore, it was noted that this was an opportunity for the Sub-committee to draft and guide the work of the CJC appropriately, and therefore it had to be ensured that Members received the correct information. 

Attention was drawn to the Local Elections Act 2021, and the role of governance and audit committees, which included aspects of performance and complaints. It was noted that the work of the Sub-committee would go across to other areas and as a result would likely to be broader than the contribution of the Section 151 Officer. The need to highlight a clear line of accountability was expressed to ensure that the Sub-committee knows who the point of contact was.

A concern was raised as to whether a representative from Audit Wales should be present at the meetings of the Sub-committee as there were no external audit issues before the Sub-committee at this meeting. It was confirmed that the CJC had agreed on a work programme with Audit Wales so they will be expected to be present for these items. A need to include this on the Forward Work Plan was identified.

The voting procedure for this meeting was confirmed, and that decisions would be published in the decision notice no more than five working days following the  ...  view the full minutes text for item 7.

Dave Hole, CJC Implementation Programme Lead to present the report.

To note the contextual position.

The report was presented stating that this was an opportunity to provide the context of the CJC along with an update on the work that had been done. It was explained that two reports had already been submitted to the Joint Committee, the first back in June, in the early days of the programme following the transfer, which had identified an ambitious list of what needed to be done but it was a period where a Chief Executive had not been appointed. The second report was reported on in November, to update on the work that had been done and identify the challenges and resources needed to complete the work.

In terms of background, it was explained that the Growth Deal had transferred to the CJC back in April and now had full operational status and the ability to employ people. The need for the CJC to comply with the general duties of public sector organisations was expressed and it was noted that there was a statutory duty to produce a Strategic Development Plan and a Regional Transport Plan.

It was explained that significant progress had been made up to/and including the transfer with a very small team. Attention was drawn to the list presented in the report. It was reiterated that a programme of change had been developed based on priorities, and that the Chief Executive had been appointed in June 2025. It was noted that some factors had held matters back, such as the appointment of officers but they were working through the Service Level Agreements to receive the support needed.

Despite the challenges it was noted that work continued to develop and was in the duplication stages for areas such as the website. Challenges were highlighted such as delays in reviewing the Welsh Government's CJC prospectus, delays in the procurement and implementation of the Committee Management System and attracting applicants for positions such as Senior Procurement Officer. It was explained that there was still a need to implement two Sub-committees namely Standards and Overview and Scrutiny Committees. It was expressed that the development of a new ANW programme for 2026/27 and a roadmap for subsequent years was likely to push several projects forward.

The Chief Executive added that the CJC had reached where they were as a result of the support of staff from partners such as Cyngor Gwynedd and they were thanked for their work. It was emphasised that the Joint Committees across Wales were new and therefore it took time to navigate through the prioritisation process trying not to put extra pressure on North Wales Authorities but to ensure they meet the Government's requirements.

The Monitoring Officer noted that work was being and had been done to establish the CJC as a fairly small entity in scale, according to the size requirements of Local Government. Over and above its establishment, he noted that programmes had been developing in the background regionally and nationally. It was reiterated that the transfer of the Growth Deal had been  ...  view the full minutes text for item 8.

Luned Fôn Jones, Cyngor Gwynedd Audit Manager to present the report.

To accept and approve the content of the Internal Audit Mandate and Charter and support Internal Audit in its operations.

It was explained that since April 2025, when the Global Internal Audit Standards came into force in the UK Public Sector, it was essential that the Audit Service comply with these Standards. It was explained that an Application Note had been submitted which provided a practical framework on how implementation and application could be carried out, provided guidance and explained how the Global Internal Audit Standards on governance – Domain III – apply to the oversight and duties of the Governance and Audit Sub-committee.  One of the essential steps was to approve a charter that includes a mandate and scope and types of Internal Audit work.

It was added that CIPFA had developed a Code of Practice for Internal Audit Governance in Local Government in the UK to interpret and ensure compliance with statutory duties. The Code was aimed at those responsible for effective governance arrangements – namely this Sub-committee.

The Charter sets out the arrangements for an internal audit function to fulfil its purpose. The role of an internal audit included:

·         Supporting the achievement of strategic objectives by providing objective risk-based assurance,

·         Promoting good practice in governance and

·         Advising on governance, risk management and internal control arrangements.

To ensure compliance with the Standards, it was noted that it was the responsibility of this Sub-committee to review and approve the Charter ensuring that there was a clear definition of

·         Purpose, authority and responsibility of Internal Audit,

·         Independence and reporting lines of the Internal Audit function,

·         Scope of work and access rights of Internal Audit,

·         That the mandate confirms that Internal Audit has the legal and institutional authority to operate effectively and provides details of the role and responsibilities of the Internal Audit function,

·         Verify that the Charter and mandate ensure the independence of Internal Audit and protect Internal Audit from undue influence,

·         Supervise and monitor Internal Audit activities to review compliance with the Charter and mandate.

It was asked what was the CJC's internal audit capacity. It was explained that Cyngor Gwynedd provided an internal audit service through a service level agreement, and it was noted that Cyngor Gwynedd's internal audit team consists of an Audit Manager, two Audit Leads, and four Senior Auditors.

It was asked how the current work programme for internal audit would be determined. It was detailed that the annual plan for Ambition North Wales would be drawn up with input from the Chief Executive and Chief Finance Officer. It was confirmed that the Annual Plan will come before this Sub-committee in the future for approval. It was noted that an Annual Plan had not been drawn up at this time as an Audit Charter was first required to produce a Strategy and the Annual Plan. It was explained that a risk assessment was being discussed and that any internal audit work would be drawn up in line with the main risks.

The Sub-committee had been assured that Ambition North Wales was in the process of developing their Corporate Risk Strategy, and a draft had been  ...  view the full minutes text for item 9.